From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a37:4a04:: with SMTP id x4mr56516027qka.408.1563977166640; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:06:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:76ce:: with SMTP id p14mr39473142otl.342.1563977166278; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.unit0.net!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!b26no8384848qtq.0!news-out.google.com!a5ni1709qtd.0!nntp.google.com!b26no8384840qtq.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:06:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5d9a8728-3c5b-4caf-b765-a455ba4d3523@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:3c3:401:f550:857b:867c:6951:32ba; posting-account=JSxOkAoAAADa00TJoz2WZ_46XrZCdXeS NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:3c3:401:f550:857b:867c:6951:32ba References: <5d9a8728-3c5b-4caf-b765-a455ba4d3523@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5fb45b9c-d7da-447c-999e-0e8bcce2eed5@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: How to make Ada popular. Get rid of ";" at end of statement. From: John Perry Injection-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:06:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:56927 Date: 2019-07-24T07:06:05-07:00 List-Id: On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 4:58:12 PM UTC-5, Ingo M. wrote: > Am Freitag, 19. Juli 2019 23:42:00 UTC+2 schrieb Nasser M. Abbasi: > > "Part of the reason for Python=E2=80=99s popularity is that it > > gets rid of the annoying conventions of other languages, such as > > using semicolons to indicate the end of a statement. >=20 > Python is popular because it is the "Basic" of our time. Basic was popula= r in the 70s because it was easy to handle for beginners who wanted to lear= n programming. Javascript (the "Basic" for the Web) is more complex for beg= inners since it requires basic knowledge how to deal with a web server. So = Python is a good language for education. In support of this assertion, I submit that the main reasons for Python's p= opularity are: 1) Variable types don't have to be declared. 2) Code doesn't have to compile. 3) The code is written for situations where there are no bad consequences i= f the system crashes. [Java requires types and compilation. I don't know about #3, but I remember= that it used to come with a warning that you shouldn't use it in critical = places like, say, trains, planes, and nuclear plants. (IIRC the warning on = "nuclear plants" was explicit.)] 4) You don't care that much about speed. 5) You don't need any parallelism that isn't built-in, or isn't available t= hrough a module programmed in another language. (See: Global Interpreter Lo= ck.) I know many programmers who use this model: start with Python; if it's too = slow, try compiling with Cython; if it's still too slow, assign types to ce= rtain variables; if it's still too slow, analyze the algorithm; if it's sti= ll too slow, think about implementing it in C or C++. > So I'd like to make a suggestion: Remove ";" from Ada. Won't make a dent in Ada's popularity. The bandwagon effect is a really big deal: almost everyone who has heard of= Ada, has heard that DoD commissioned it, and that most people dislike it. = That's about it. Ask for a concrete example why they dislike it, and you'll= probably get, "It's complicated." Anyone who's actually used Ada these days might reply, "Complicated? Compar= ed to what, C++?" The one concrete reason I've ever heard for using C or C++ instead of Modul= a-2 or Ada is that C/C++ allow you to perform pointer arithmetic, which one= person I spoke to thought was essential for his work. I don't know enough = about Ada to know how to address his situation, but even if it did allow it= , I don't think it would matter. I had a conversation with a computer science professor the other day about = security in automobiles, where a lot of people are using C or C++. At the e= nd I asked why they don't use Ada, and if I could distill the answer, it wa= s that Ada is perceived as pass=C3=A9, sort of like working as a comedian w= ithout relying on profanity: good luck with that career. Sure, you *can* do= it, but almost no one does, because... well, "it's complicated." john perry