From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a37:aa04:: with SMTP id t4mr51783882qke.359.1563919092228; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:58:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:4853:: with SMTP id v80mr38458259oia.78.1563919091955; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!b26no6330706qtq.0!news-out.google.com!a5ni1634qtd.0!nntp.google.com!b26no6330701qtq.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:58:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=47.70.164.110; posting-account=XYi0owoAAAC_eOHXu2MQKhBYUNiEUxE2 NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.70.164.110 References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5d9a8728-3c5b-4caf-b765-a455ba4d3523@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: How to make Ada popular. Get rid of ";" at end of statement. From: "Ingo M." Injection-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:58:12 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:56923 Date: 2019-07-23T14:58:11-07:00 List-Id: Am Freitag, 19. Juli 2019 23:42:00 UTC+2 schrieb Nasser M. Abbasi: > "Part of the reason for Python=E2=80=99s popularity is that it > gets rid of the annoying conventions of other languages, such as > using semicolons to indicate the end of a statement. Python is popular because it is the "Basic" of our time. Basic was popular = in the 70s because it was easy to handle for beginners who wanted to learn = programming. Javascript (the "Basic" for the Web) is more complex for begin= ners since it requires basic knowledge how to deal with a web server. So Py= thon is a good language for education. Ada however is on the other end of the scale. It was developed for professi= onals who need a safe language for long-term mission-critical applications. > So I'd like to make a suggestion: Remove ";" from Ada. This is a bad idea. Semicolons may be annoying for small applications (whic= h is typical for Python). However, if you deal with larger code bases then = you realize that verbose syntax benefits maintainability.=20 There are languages like OCaml which use even _double_ semicolons. This loo= ks also annoying at the beginning. However, when you understand the design = of OCaml then those double semicolons really make sense, and they don't loo= k so annoying anymore. Many people are also disgusted by Lisp (all these st= range parentheses). However, when you have realized the beauty of Lisp then= those seemingly annoying parentheses get out of your focus quickly. They b= ecome just natural. In the same way Ada semicolons are just natural. In Ada= you don't need to fear to insert larger code into your application since t= he compiler gets all information for clean inserts. Try to do that in Pytho= n (or Nim, see below), and you will get nervous at a certain code size. I have the impression that newer languages like Python, Rust and Haskell ar= e favored by some developers because it helps to develop "throw-away" softw= are. Our industry is producing new devices rapidly which implies rapid code= changes. It makes no sense for many products to deal with legacy code base= s. It is more profitable just to write new software, and that explains also= why anti-verbose languages with convenient toolboxes are so popular today.= Bugs don't really matter if the product cycles are just short enough. I think the larger a code base is the more a developer will esteem "boring"= features like a verbose "archaic" syntax like Ada which eases readibility = and maintainability. As for me, I have no problems at all to understand my = own Ada95 code which I wrote decades ago. On the other hand, I had serious = problems to understand my own Haskell code which I wrote just ten days ago = :-) Regarding Haskell, someone condemned it as a "joke" regarding practical= ly. This is a harsh statement. However, it is not that wrong. Try to write = an MS office clone in Haskell -- good luck! By the way, if you dislike languages with semicolon you should take a look = at Nim (nim-lang.org). It is a Python-like language with native C performan= ce. However, I wouldn't use it for big applications because of the whitespa= ce indentation. Regards, Ingo