From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: a07f3367d7,3d76796391769899 X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,public,usenet X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,CP1252 Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Ludovic Brenta Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Improving the first contact with Ada Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 01:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <5b782537-f2cb-4568-9e59-7441269372f1@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> References: <41d3829e-286d-4894-9140-31343bfa75ac@o12g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <82y6fgxncs.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <82aarux3g3.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <2da7ba0b-0c45-4c7b-a523-b3438e43212a@j27g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <87k4qsapgr.fsf_-_@ludovic-brenta.org> <096e5f19-ed4d-4c02-b889-88856ac0d5c7@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> <87y6eiohup.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> <472c5f8a-111f-429f-acf5-b50b76079241@3g2000vbg.googlegroups.com> <87typ6ocf4.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 153.98.68.197 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1276502616 18845 127.0.0.1 (14 Jun 2010 08:03:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 08:03:36 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=153.98.68.197; posting-account=pcLQNgkAAAD9TrXkhkIgiY6-MDtJjIlC User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.0.6) Gecko/2009012111 Red Hat/3.0.6-1.el5 Firefox/3.0.6,gzip(gfe) Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:11695 Date: 2010-06-14T01:03:36-07:00 List-Id: Yannick Duch=EAne wrote on comp.lang.ada: > Ludovic Brenta a =E9crit: >>> Sorry, I know Ada is about content and the image it radiates, >>> esthetically, maybe the least of your concern (I don't point you >>> directly Ludovic) but the web site of ADAIC is a time machine to >>> ~1993. =A0I came across that site often and I left it as many times >>> because I though this was an obsolete site! >>> >>> Seriously, it needs refreshing! >> >> I agree. =A0Maybe that's the problem with Ada people: they spend too muc= h >> time writing quality software and not enough doing marketing. =A0I try t= o >> do my part in the technical marketing department but I'm not a webmaster >> or a graphics designer. =A0I think you'd get the same kind of anwser fro= m >> most people on this newsgroup. > > If may give my opinion. > > 1) Most of time, people who says =93software designers are poor graphic = =A0 > designers=94, are themselves poor software designer. They stop on graphic= =A0 > design, because this is the sole thing whose quality they are able to =A0 > evaluate (does not only applies to Ada, this also applies with web =A0 > applications written in JavaScript and the like). I differ. I use emacs in full-screen mode with no menu bar, no button bar and I rarely ever touch the mouse. My "desktop environment" is ratpoison[1]. I wrote a few web pages in the past: in emacs and hand-written, with no JavaScript or CSS. When I browse in firefox, I have a habit of doing View > Page Style > No style to *disable* any fancy (and usually bad) CSS layout that the "web designer" at the other end thinks is "cool" but, to me, just gets in the way. I like my web pages simple and to the point, just like the software I use or write. I am not a graphics designer and definitely not a web designer but I think I am a good software engineer. Maybe I *could* become a good web designer but I'm just not interested. Back in the days when I worked on a large web application, I avoided the "web" part and concentrated on the back-end (server) part. I like Plain Text. I prefer command-line tools over GUI tools, so when I write a utility for my own use, I never give it a GUI. [1] http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ > 2) People seeking for documentation, should be aware that, when seeking = =A0 > for documentation, documentation should come first! Not graphical design!= =A0 > What can you expect from someones who run away from a graphical design an= d =A0 > prefer to go elsewhere, with may be a better graphical design, but lower = =A0 > quality documentation. Look at Jean Pierre Rosen's AdaControl : may some = =A0 > others sites has a better graphical design than his one, but none has suc= h =A0 > an application as AdaControl. A choice must be made and every one is =A0 > responsible for his/her choice. This would seem to indicate Jean-Pierre and I are of the same breed: excellent software engineers, lousy web designers :) > 3) AdaIC has a graphical identity, if it change it, pretty sure many body= =A0 > gonna ask themselves what happened (=93is it still the same AdaIC ?=94) > 4) AdaIC design is not so bad, it is even good (well balanced and =A0 > constant). Old fashioned ? What was nice 15 years ago is ugly now ? So = =A0 > people 15 years ago all had bad taste ? Something is silly in this =A0 > assertion, and even some famous web designers agree that this is a silly = =A0 > point of view (some lough out loud when they here about so called =93Web = 2.0 =A0 > graphical style=94). I too like the style of AdaIC, except for the hardcoded "column" layout that wastes precious horizontal space. > 5) If you want to differentiate from others, don't copy everyones else = =A0 > graphical identity, get yours. Right; don't be a lemming. -- Ludovic Brenta.