From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/09/25 Message-ID: <52ajct$fbu@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 185201563 references: <01bb8df1$2e19d420$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com> <515o3b$d7h@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au> <01bb9fe6$7299d800$87ee6fce@timpent.a-sis.com> <51knkn$j61@dub-news-svc-8.compuserve.com> <01bba638$e913f800$87ee6fce@timpent.a-sis.com> <324844D7.1507@trw.com> organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada nntp-posting-user: ok Date: 1996-09-25T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: "Matthew M. Lih" writes: >Even some veterans don't have any idea. I'm taking >a C++ class, and the instructor didn't have any idea >that the "++" operator was developed because it >corresponded to a very quick machine language >instruction in the old PDP machines. This isn't true. C inherited ++ from B, which was an *interpreted* language. The updated operators += -= and so on were copied from Algol 68 (where they were spelled +:= -:= and so on), and the designers of Algol 68 paid very little attention to hardware issues. On at least some models of PDP-11, the INC instruction was *not* quicker than ADD, just shorter. >When I pointed >this out, his comment was along the lines of "Oh, >you hardware types." He *should* have said "oh, you superstitious types! Dennis Ritchie has been trying to kill this lie for _years_." >I mention this not to rag on my instructor (who >*is* knowledgable and good), but to point out that >we have successfully insulated the users from the >machine, which was intended. Your instructor even has the right gaps in his knowledge: he didn't know something that wasn't true. C has *not* insulated the programmers from the machine. One look at the type system will tell you *that*. If you want to insulate the programmers from the machine, try Lisp, or Ada. >I was rather disillusioned when I figured >out that in order to be a successful database programmer >I really had to know how the DBMS worked in order to >develop useful software. Can anyone please supply the source and correct form of this quotation: "When anyone tells me 'I want to have a programming language in which I have merely to say what I want done' I give him a lollipop." -- Australian citizen since 14 August 1996. *Now* I can vote the xxxs out! Richard A. O'Keefe; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/%7Eok; RMIT Comp.Sci.