From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Path: border1.nntp.dca3.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca3.giganews.com!border4.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!news.unit0.net!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!newsfeed.arcor.de!newsspool4.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de.POSTED!not-for-mail Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:00:16 +0200 From: Georg Bauhaus User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Elaboration order handling (Was: Bug in 'gnatmake') References: <7f33982d-3bcf-452e-a3b3-3a0a28505ff1@x20g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> <87r4g0g9c0.fsf@adaheads.sparre-andersen.dk> <87ip1bg4z2.fsf_-_@adaheads.sparre-andersen.dk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <51c21bdf$0$6629$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net> Organization: Arcor NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jun 2013 23:00:15 CEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 654ae614.newsspool2.arcor-online.net X-Trace: DXC=T]e84[`I[ei016@cHD@m; jA9EHlD; 3Ycb4Fo<]lROoRa8kFejVh^5IcJ?l]B\d?TjVgGIeTDa X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@arcor.de X-Original-Bytes: 2677 Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.lang.ada:181963 Date: 2013-06-19T23:00:15+02:00 List-Id: On 19.06.13 14:22, Robert A Duff wrote: > But with elab order, there is exactly ZERO benefit to allowing > arbitrary orders. And the disadvantage is huge: I've seen people > wasting boatloads of money on this! Nevertheless, elaboration control of some sort is a thing that I'd really like to have available in the languages I need to use every day. They don't have a notion of elaboration, so I need to just be careful™. This wastes time, nerves, and money. Like so: Test effects of current order ... watch traces ... think hard ... iterate. Lack of elaboration control also puts entire systems at risk once you run them in an unforeseen situation, let alone port them to a new environment. Structurally, the kind of work I need to do in order to establish an elaboration order that works is much like having to manually elaborate a scheme of control of shared variables, but without anything like a protected object. I known I'm not alone wishing elaboration order were available in popular languages, but popular languages are of the GTD kind, and pushed out the door for making quick money, not for saving others' money (and being payed for that).