From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Craig Franck Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/09/11 Message-ID: <515al5$lm8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 179841043 references: <01bb8df1$2e19d420$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com> <4vcac4$gm6@zeus.orl.mmc.com> <01bb8f19$9a89d820$32ee6fce@timhome2> <841797763snz@genesis.demon.co.uk> <322f864d.42836625@news.demon.co.uk> <01bb9bf9$61e9e0e0$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com> <50sj6q$aci@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <01bb9d25$9cb3cb00$32ee6fcf@timhome2> <50v6k3$soo@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <01bb9ded$cd0fdf00$32ee6fcf@timhome2> <5136on$7qj@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au> <01bb9f26$36c870e0$87ee6fce@timpent.a-sis.com> content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii organization: AT&T WorldNet Services mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada x-mailer: Mozilla 1.22ATT (Windows; U; 16bit) Date: 1996-09-11T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: jsa@alexandria (Jon S Anthony) wrote: >In article <01bb9f26$36c870e0$87ee6fce@timpent.a-sis.com> "Tim Behrendsen" writes: >> Procedural means "has a procedure." Nothing in the real world >> is not procedural, but we can *express* algorithms non-procedurally. >> This is where the term is useful. The term is meaningless when it >> comes to implementation. > >Well, at this point, I'd have to say that your _definition_ has become >meaningless, or at the very least, empty of content. It would be meaningfull if Tim could come up with an example of "non-procedural" behavour. Procedural means it "has a procedure" adds nothing, unless an example of "not having a procedure" is given. For something to be a theory, you must be able to come up with a testable example in which it is proven false. For a word to have meaning it must be shown to have a "creditable distinction". "All is Up" impresses no one. If, say, a random change from one state into the next, with the current state having nothing to do with the past one, is considered "non-procedural", then the definition has meaning. Remember, everything in the real world is real, and some things are inexpressable, even though they have meaning. All algorithms may be "procedural" when they are implemented, because that is the way an "implementation" of an algorithm is defined by some. -- Craig clfranck@worldnet.att.net Manchester, NH A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James