From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/09/10 Message-ID: <51368e$6ir@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 179669662 references: <01bb9a1e$24c669e0$32ee6fcf@timhome2> <50p68s$cpi@zeus.orl.mmc.com> organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada nntp-posting-user: ok Date: 1996-09-10T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: rgilbert@unconfigured.xvnews.domain (Bob Gilbert) writes: >I suspect our definitions of procedural vs non-procedural (e.g. object >oriented) views are not the same. Non-procedural views do not imply >"instantaneous" algorithms, the non-existence of a time axis, or whatever. It strikes me as a very strange use of language to call object-oriented programming (of the kind exemplified by Simula 67, Smalltalk, C++, Ada 95, CLOS, Eiffel, Self, Cecil, NewtonScript, &c) "non-procedural". They are about as thoroughly procedural as you can get. The opposite of "procedural" is not "OOP" but "declarative". Declarative languages include Haskell, Clean, Mercury, and perhaps Goedel, which I don't know all that well. Maybe Sisal at all, but I don't know it. In those languages the programmer has no idea and no reason to care in what order operations are performed; any order the compiler chooses will make sense. (Yes, it is still possible to write programs that interact with the world, and at least in Clean, very simply and elegantly.) -- Australian citizen since 14 August 1996. *Now* I can vote the xxxs out! Richard A. O'Keefe; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/%7Eok; RMIT Comp.Sci.