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From: philb@iag.net (Phil Barnett)
Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn
 C or Pascal?]
Date: 1996/09/03
Message-ID: <50g3pr$sir@news.iag.net>#1/1
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references: <01bb846d$c6c01780$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>
 <4vgs4p$evl@news.accessone.com> <4vhtrd$8cq@news.ccit.arizona.edu>
 <5085r7$ra7@kanga.accessone.com> <50a7cs$m6e@news.ccit.arizona.edu>
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newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada
Date: 1996-09-03T00:00:00+00:00
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In article <50fmsm$3o2@news.asu.edu>, deafen@imap2.asu.edu says...

>I can't speak much for the academic or research communities.  However, if 
>a programmer is going to be of much use at all to the business community, 
>it's far more important *to the employer* that s/he know the current 
>state of the art than the underlying foundation.

This is a total crock. If you don't know the foundations, you will build 
shakey apps with your state of the art technology with completely good 
intentions. You have it exactly backwards.

If you know the foundations, you can create excellent, stable and robust code 
in ANY language. 

If you don't know the foundations, you will be beat to death by your 
mistakes or will build as many beautiful pieces of useless or wrong code as 
you will good ones.

>I'm not saying that it shouldn't be taught.  However, before decrying the 
>lack of fundamental knowledge in current CS graduates, it's important to 
>take these things into consideration.

No, after being in the business community for many years, I can tell you by 
experience that this is simply not the case.

>Colleges are stuck with the unenviable task of ensuring that their 
>graduates will be employable and proficient.  An employer (in the 
>business community) doesn't much care if a programmer knows what object 
>code is created from their source code.  They care that the programmer 
>can program well *in the environment of that particular organization*.

College graduates are seldom useful for the large organization until they 
have spent a few years learning how it all actually works. (of course, there 
are exceptions)

I work for a large multinational corporation with a huge IS department, and 
college graduates are not placed in the planning or management of projects 
until they have many years on the job. There is a reason for this. They do 
not know the foundations of THIS PARTICULAR business.

Only experience teaches what an employee needs to know to become valuable.

Foundations make the trip quicker.

Foundations allow you to know where the mistakes and errors lie without 
actually commiting them.

Foundations keep you from going down the wrong path in the first place.

State of the Art technology provides none of this. 

---
              Phil Barnett  mailto:philb@iag.net
                       WWW  http://www.iag.net/~philb/
                  FTP Site  ftp://ftp.iag.net/pub/clipper