From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, TO_NO_BRKTS_PCNT autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/09/02 Message-ID: <50e7ad$c70@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 177952081 distribution: world organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada nntp-posting-user: ok Date: 1996-09-02T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: "Larry J. Elmore" writes: >I believe Tim was referring to qualified students actually ready for >college, Richard. The fact is, remedial programs should NOT be offered by >colleges--unqualified students should never be admitted in the first >place!!! The students we get are the students we get. We do what we can with them, or we go out of business. The Liberal government here believes that the best thing it can do for the country is spend heavily on the 2000 Olympics and cut education by 10%. This on top of a state Liberal government that has had several years of closing schools (including one where the previous premier's spouse just happened to work...). >It is true that one can pick up assembly language on one's own, but that >can be said about almost *everything* in computer science... Actually, I'm >a great admirer of self-education, but there is great value in traditional >education (and not only because it's a hell of a lot harder to get a good >job without that expensive piece of paper called a diploma...). Hm. A lot depends on what you mean by "traditional" education. I don't think giving lectures in Latin will help any more (I don't think the places that do that teach CS, though I could be wrong). Someone with an education degree told me last semester that "everyone knows lectures are a bad idea". There are a lot of things in CS that can only be picked up with a _lot_ of background. I have a hard time with some papers because I have only the most elementary grasp of category theory. Assembler is one of those things that is easy to pick up _without_ a lot of background. My own personal view is that education should be about guiding people through their self-education, helping them get the background to understand the things they want to understand. In a country where the government is preaching "The American model" to universities, and believes that this means "reduce government funding; offer market-driven teaching; put up prices to students; have a few really good universities that do research and maybe shut down or degrade the rest", my own personal views don't have much influence. -- Australian citizen since 14 August 1996. *Now* I can vote the xxxs out! Richard A. O'Keefe; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/%7Eok; RMIT Comp.Sci.