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From: dweller@dfw.net (David Weller)
Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn
 C or Pascal?]
Date: 1996/08/08
Message-ID: <4ucqmo$ac2@dfw.dfw.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 172924375
references: <sperlman-0507961717550001@p121.ezo.net>
 <01bb83cc$fb35e180$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>
 <4u8lff$3bs@solutions.solon.com>
 <01bb846c$e51df220$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>
organization: DFWNet -- Public Internet Access
followup-to: comp.edu
newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada
Date: 1996-08-08T00:00:00+00:00
List-Id: <comp.lang.ada>


In article <01bb846c$e51df220$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>,
Tim Behrendsen <tim@airshields.com> continues his long, and relatively
indefensible, arguments for teaching assembler instead of a high-level
language for CS1-type classes...:
>
>Not to get into a debate on the meaning of abstraction, but the
>point is that there is very little hidden from the student when
>they are learning assembly.  This allows them to better concentrate
>on the basics of algorithms, because they are not distracted by syntax.
>

Yeah, for loops are sooo much clearer when you write in
assembler...and so much less error-prone because everything is right
in front of you!

>> What are you *talking* about?  Algorithmic analysis is fundementally an
>> abstraction.  Rather than looking at the *specific* costs of the
>algorithm, we
>> look at the *kinds* of costs.  N^2 vs. log(N) complexity is entirely an
>> abstraction.
>
>Of course, but I'm talking about abstractions of assembly, i.e.,
>HLLs.  Remember, C (or any HLL) does not really exist as far as
>the computer knows.  Assembly is the direct raw instruction set of
>the physical machine.  If the student is learning algorithms in
>assembly, they are unquestionably learning the algorithm, and not
>just some vague concept wrapped in 10 layers of wool.
>
>The *reality* is, students graduating today are just not getting
>it.

Your experience with new employees/interviewees that "just don't get
it" provides 0% support to your claim that abstractions in assembly
will produce smarter students (which, from my recollection at the
beginning of this thread, is what you were claiming).

Please note: Followups have been redirected -- this argument has very
little to do with the newsgroups it originally started in, and this
thread is FAR more appropriate in comp.edu.

-- 
    Visit the Ada 95 Booch Components Homepage: www.ocsystems.com/booch
           This is not your father's Ada -- lglwww.epfl.ch/Ada