From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public From: seebs@solutions.solon.com (Peter Seebach) Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/08/07 Message-ID: <4uahfe$bao@solutions.solon.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 172722952 references: <01bb83cc$fb35e180$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com> <4u8lff$3bs@solutions.solon.com> <01bb846c$e51df220$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com> organization: Usenet Fact Police (Undercover) reply-to: seebs@solon.com newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada Date: 1996-08-07T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article <01bb846c$e51df220$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>, Tim Behrendsen wrote: >Peter Seebach wrote in article ><4u8lff$3bs@solutions.solon.com>... >Not to get into a debate on the meaning of abstraction, but the >point is that there is very little hidden from the student when >they are learning assembly. This allows them to better concentrate >on the basics of algorithms, because they are not distracted by syntax. Huh? The basics of algorithms are hidden from them, when they are sitting around counting bytes and remembering the mnemonics for operations. Assembly has more syntax per operation done than anything else. >Of course, but I'm talking about abstractions of assembly, i.e., >HLLs. Remember, C (or any HLL) does not really exist as far as >the computer knows. Assembly is the direct raw instruction set of >the physical machine. If the student is learning algorithms in >assembly, they are unquestionably learning the algorithm, and not >just some vague concept wrapped in 10 layers of wool. No, they're learning assembly. Assembly is relatively hard. No amount of abstraction in a language will hide the algorithm; the more abstract the language, the more visible the algorithm, because there's less and less there. The only real exception is when the language encapsulates an algorithm; using qsort() does not teach you a sorting algorithm. But writing a quicksort() in C will teach you at least as much about quicksort as writing it in assembly. >> >Perhaps a better question is, which is more important: Learning >> >abstractions or algorithmic analysis? I say that algorithmic >> >analysis is 10 to 1 more important than abstractions. >> "Learning English is 10 to 1 more important than learning any language." >True, but don't get me started on the English skills of some of >my applicants! Huh? The point of my statement is that English *is* a language. Algorithmic analysis cannot be more important than abstractions, because it's a subset of abstractions. I have to agree, though, I'm sick to death of native speakers of English who don't get it. -s -- Peter Seebach - seebs@solon.com - Copyright 1996 - http://www.solon.com/~seebs Unix/C Wizard - send mail for help, or send money for consulting! The *other* C FAQ, the hacker FAQ, et al. See web page above. Unsolicited email (junk mail and ads) is unwelcome, and will be billed for.