From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public From: huang@mnsinc.com (Szu-Wen Huang) Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/08/06 Message-ID: <4u7grn$eb0@news1.mnsinc.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 172457351 distribution: inet references: <31FBC584.4188@ivic.qc.ca> <01bb7da2$6c505ac0$96ee6fcf@timhome2> <01bb8027$de0e9c80$96ee6fcf@timhome2> <4u5a11$siv@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> <01bb8342$88cc6f40$32ee6fcf@timhome2> followup-to: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada organization: Monumental Network Systems newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada Date: 1996-08-06T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Tim Behrendsen (tim@airshields.com) wrote: : Fergus Henderson wrote in article : <4u5a11$siv@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>... : > That's not a realistic thought experiment. Teaching abstraction, : > data structures, etc. is easier in a higher level language, : > and so it is unlikely that Jane will have managed to complete : > the same curriculum that John can, given the handicap of using : > a low-level language. : This seems to be a common theme; that programming things in : assembly in necessarily harder than programming in a HLL. It is, in general. : Maybe I'm weird, but I just don't see assembly as being harder : than a HLL, and in fact, it seems to me that it's much easier. : The number of fundamental things to learn is *very* small, and : I would think that being able to show a problem in terms of the : "array of memory" being manipulated would just make it infinitely : easier than having to wrestle with all the abstract nonsense. I know what you're trying to say, but you neglect what the subject is trying to teach. I don't need my students to learn how to print out a string calling interrupt this function that, or that the instruction *after* a branch is always executed (in some pipelined RISCs), or you cannot divide by the ZZX register. These will all be useless in a few years, perhaps even a few months. I need my students to learn when and why quicksort is more efficient than bubblesort, and telling them to use assembly sidetracks that effort. : Now, you wouldn't want to *maintain* large systems of assembly, : which is why HLLs have taken over the world, but it seems to : me that assembly per se is just not that hard to use. It's not hard to use. It just hampers the *goal* by dumping the students with more things to learn needlessly.