From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public From: steidl@centuryinter.net Subject: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal? Date: 1996/07/20 Message-ID: <4srrrj$jrl@news.ld.centuryinter.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 169145980 references: <01bb73e3.1c6a0060$6bf467ce@dave.iceslimited.com> <1996Jul20.124025.122789@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <4srb1i$n04@news-e2c.gnn.com> organization: Century Internet reply-to: steidl@centuryinter.net newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.ada Date: 1996-07-20T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In <4srb1i$n04@news-e2c.gnn.com>, ajaskey@gnn.com (Andy Askey) writes: >anh@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (TRAN PHAN ANH) wrote: > >>Absolutely right. > >>But Pascal or C was the original question. Start with C is what I say. >>Better yet, why not C++ then move on to JAVA? > >>Besides, if you can master C/C++, and JAVA, it will take you 5 min. to learn >>Pascal. Actually, if one has a solid foundation in programming techniques and >>a solid understanding of one or two languages, one can aquire a working >>knowledge of any language in no time. It seems naive to think that one could have a "solid foundation in programming techniques" if one only has a "solid understanding of one or two languages" such as C/C++ and JAVA. How can you obtain a solid foundation of making use of dynamic types if you haven't had a lot of practice with SmallTalk or some other language that supports it? How can you have a solid foundation in lazy evaluation if you don't have a decent amount of experience with Haskell or some other language that supports it? How can you have a solid foundation in non-procedural programming if you've only used procedural languages? What about functional programming, reflective programming, higher-order functions, continuation semantics, syntactical pattern matching, metaclasses? Yes, most of these can be emulated in C/C++, but not easily, and you are not likely to be well versed in their use if C/C++/JAVA are the only languages you've really used. The statement "one can aquire a working knowledge of any language in no time" also seems quite naive. The languages that do support these features are not as easy to pick up as you might think - using them to their fullest requires learning substantially different approaches to programming problems, just as OOP C++ requires a significantly different approach than non-OOP C (or non-OOP C++). And the learning that comes out of taking that different approach is what will make you a better programmer. >>>From my point of view, right now, C/C++, and JAVA on a resume is hotter >>than Pascal. >>Anh That's true, but how long will C++ be king of the hill? Besides, when I interview someone for a job, I don't care if their C++ specific skills are at 100% or not. I have even let interviewees answer interview questions using their language of choice because I know that picking up syntax is simple, but learning concepts is hard (and some people never learn them). >Absolutely right, Anh. I started with Fortran, taught myself C and >C++ in about a month or so, and then picked up Ada in a couple weeks. > >Andy Askey If you think you learned C++ (and OOP) in a month after only knowning ForTran, then either you are fooling yourself, or you're a hell of a lot smarter then me or anyone else I know. Most of the syntax can be learned in a week or less. But OOP (and some of the more obscure facets of C++) take much longer. As to the original question, if it is an either-or situation and you are only considering strict Pascal, then yes C++ is probably the better choice. If you allow for Pascal variants (such as Delphi) or more recent versions of Pascal (i.e. Modula 3), then the choice is not so clear cut. If your only goal in life is to get a job [:-(], then C++ probably still edges out the newer Pascals. But that question is moot and not even worth arguing since no aspiring programmer should limit themselves to only one language. -Jeff steidl@centuryinter.net - http://www.dont.i.wish.com/ All opinions are my own, and are subject to change without notice.