From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,f292779560fb8442 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 10db24,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid10db24,public X-Google-Thread: 1008e3,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid1008e3,public X-Google-Thread: f8c65,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gidf8c65,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,af40e09e753872c X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public From: z007400b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Ralph Silverman) Subject: Re: Hungarian notation Date: 1996/06/06 Message-ID: <4p6mor$qbb@nntp.seflin.lib.fl.us>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 158776760 references: <31999F43.41C67EA6@scn.de> <319D2278.3F9A@netonecom.net> <4nr50r$jo2@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> <4ns02o$ep3@goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU> <4o07o9$rfu@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au> <4o1vo3$p2a@news1.ni.net> followup-to: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.modula3,comp.lang.modula2,comp.edu,comp.lang.eiffel organization: SEFLIN Free-Net - Broward newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.modula3,comp.lang.modula2,comp.edu,comp.lang.eiffel Date: 1996-06-06T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Bob Rodgers (rsrodger@wam.umd.edu) wrote: : dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) wrote: : >Well, I guess they just don't want to comment the code and don't come to ask : >you question anymore. I'm a student in CS, and I know what the students feel. : > When the project is dued soon and don't get the program works, do you still : >have time to comment to code?" : Yes. Yes, you certainly do. In fact, if you haven't been commenting : all along, that's probably why you're pushing the deadline and the : project doesn't work yet. : The time to start programming right is *now*, not later. I laugh when : I see or hear a CS teacher who says they get caught by the assignment : = in conditional expressions, since no modern compiler lacks the : ability to flag this as an error (or the old constant-first trick, : e.g., "if(3 = x)" will **always** error) if you decide to read one or : two pages of documentation. : >On the contrary, my students know that working code is useless to hand in : >if it is not commented, so they *have* to comment the code. In fact a : >well-commented and well-designed but not quite working assignment gets : >much more credit than a fully working program which is poorly designed, : >or has incomplete or incomprehensible comments. : One of the problems in CS is the focus on "execution" correctness : instead of overall correctness. It's a lot easier to grade (it either : works, or it doesn't), but it doesn't really address student : difficulties (especially with pointers, which kill first year student : projects all the time without them even knowing how to identify it as : anything but "it's acting weird, time to reboot"), nor grade on the : quality of the code. : One thing I remember, and will always remember, is a statement from a : teacher: "If you have a bug, you have an error." I was quite frankly : surprised at how many students didn't realize this -- instead, they : tried to solve project problems with various degrees of mojo -- : rebooting, renaming their data files, changing where things are in a : file, compiling with and without debug code. Some beleagered students : will actually print out their project and re-type the "problem : sections" -- accidently fixing errors, or making them less apparent : (i.e., serious pointer problems that, by happenstance, make the : program crash sooner or later, or not at all, even though they haven't : actually moved). : CS education is in a sorry state when the only criteria to pass a : class are the ability to memorize the string function examples and get : a project working, even if it's spaghetti. -- **********begin r.s. response*********** why not major in hegelian metaphysics or creative writing (modern poetry) ? generally there is no 'compiler' or assembler and nothing to do (in these) but handhold with teachers and other students! is not one of the great things about programming that it has the objective component of making thing which ACTUALLY WORK!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ reasonably, working, compilable (and/or assemblable) code and comments are not on the same level. computer programmers, i guess, PROGRAM COMPUTERS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yes ? **********end r.s response************** Ralph Silverman z007400b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us