From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,f292779560fb8442 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,af40e09e753872c X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: f8c65,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gidf8c65,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1008e3,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid1008e3,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 10db24,30e368bdb3310fe5 X-Google-Attributes: gid10db24,public From: fulton.52@osu.edu (Mike Fulton) Subject: Re: The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Date: 1996/06/05 Message-ID: <4p3dad$mia@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 158551855 references: <4o07o9$rfu@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au> <4o1vo3$p2a@news1.ni.net> <4oegks$ntn@goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU> <4p2jau$hkp@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au> organization: Ohio State University newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.modula3,comp.lang.modula2,comp.edu,comp.lang.eiffel Date: 1996-06-05T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article <4p2jau$hkp@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au>, peter@tesla.newcastle.edu.au wrote: >Clark L. Coleman (clc5q@mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU) wrote: > >>The real problem in academia in this regard is the continual assignment >>of projects that will only take 1 to 3 pages of final source code. > >This is indeed the problem, and I don't know how to solve it. >Those of us with experience in real-world projects know that >there's a radical difference between the techniques needed to >write a big program and those needed to write a "Hello world" >program. Most students don't understand this, and frankly I >don't know how to get the message across. I'm a soph at Ohio State, just finished my second modula-2 class and I agree with the two preceding points 110%. I started college at the age of 28 and have coded in everything from 6809 assembler to MS VBA (but never modula until now), starting at the age of 12. But, this is my first time to learn correct structure--wish someone would've told me this stuff when I was 12 :) So, maybe my perspective is odd, but here's my idea. Why don't schools design projects/labs that build upon themselves. Every one of my projects could have been done without doing the preceding projects. When we implemented Abstract Data Types (ADT), they gave us the .def files and told use how to use the procedures. Why not have us build those implementation modules first. Start with what the language gives you and then extend it. Create an ADT from the ground up. Then have us use the ADT we made to implement other ADT by layering them over our first ones. After we build enough structures and routines, have us use them to create a real project. Something that would be difficult to build from scratch, but moderately easy using OUR tools. This would truely show us the value of starting with good data structures. And it would force us to write readable code and use good commenting, since you have to use today's code 1 or 2 months later, or even next quarter. I realize this would cripple the student who had trouble in the beginning. Or maybe it would bring the problems to light sooner (by force) so the student could get back on track. I think you must understand the basic structures or there's no point in going further anyway. Just my thought :) ****************************** Mike Fulton fulton.52@osu.edu (614) 447-0537 voice ******************************