From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a02:83ce:: with SMTP id j14mr6068470jah.61.1556246877741; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:47:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:3c55:: with SMTP id j82mr5221242oia.84.1556246877513; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!136no68111itk.0!news-out.google.com!v189ni49itv.0!nntp.google.com!b2no68029itd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:47:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=97.99.196.17; posting-account=zwxLlwoAAAChLBU7oraRzNDnqQYkYbpo NNTP-Posting-Host: 97.99.196.17 References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4b267efb-51b4-4b08-a270-f2e2e0e9b3e7@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Anonymous Access and Accessibility Levels From: Optikos Injection-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 02:47:57 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:56189 Date: 2019-04-25T19:47:57-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 6:27:54 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote: > "Jere" wrote in message=20 > news:ce96c027-79d6-4185-96ce-95823f637d8f@googlegroups.com... > ... > >I'm definitely aware of the HoD and its reputation. I am a bit > >discourage that there is not any resource (person or written) > >available to help newcomers (or heck even somewhat experienced > >Ada programmers) with issues like these. >=20 > It takes quite of bit of mental effort for even an ARG member like Tucker= or=20 > myself to want to even open 3.10.2. We even have a standing joke about=20 > sending in a search party if someone doesn't come back from the trip. >=20 > The main problem is that even an experienced hand can get confused by all= of=20 > the rules and special cases, and one minor mistake can snowball into a=20 > completely wrong conclusion. It's simply not for the faint of heart. >=20 > I suspect that accessibility implemented by compilers is essentially=20 > whatever the ACATS tests require. I know that I've never spent time on it= in=20 > Janus/Ada beyond that -- it simply isn't worth self-inflicted pain. Thus,= my=20 > advice is that accessibility works like one would expect in basic cases, = and=20 > do not go beyond basic cases unless you like pain. >=20 > Randy. It sure seems like this is a problem: when the language definition is so c= omplex in English prose that even standardization-committee members and com= piler-authors have immense difficulty utilizing it, then perhaps that is an= A#1 indicator that English prose is itself the problem. Perhaps Algol68's= two-level grammar (or analogous different programmatically-readable specif= ication 51 years later) specifying the rich semantic behavior as mapped int= o syntax was a step in the right direction after all, despite blowing every= one's minds at the time 51 years ago. Although Ada's primary problem is lack of equal-sized* or greater-sized* co= mpetitor to GNAT, Ada's second-most problem is a specification that is in n= atural-language prose. * as measured by mindshare in the marketplace Ed/Shark8, this is the niche for Byron to chart new territory (as a 2019 to= tal rethink of what the two-level grammar tried to do in Algol68) to make a= major contribution.