From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,fef3ad775ef4b0b7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.arcor.de!newsspool3.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de.POSTED!not-for-mail Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:19:04 +0200 From: Georg Bauhaus Reply-To: rm.tsoh-bauhaus@maps.futureapps.de User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080925) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada for 1st year students References: <60e0c5f0-1e17-4add-b21e-b1ef622d5233@v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <6gj2s5-0f9.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com> <543356bc-7862-45d2-9004-dfef69deab26@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> <802648fb-608e-42de-b94a-9dd39b1e2b21@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <48f22378$0$17124$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net> Organization: Arcor NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Oct 2008 18:19:04 CEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 48f6fa10.newsspool2.arcor-online.net X-Trace: DXC=iU;O\Z^^@S:=FQB?mjjV50A9EHlD;3Yc24Fo<]lROoR14nDHegD_]R5XiTe9aUio`?KQDKiQ7heQZTE94i^a:foCDNCFMW98 X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@arcor.de Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:2348 Date: 2008-10-12T18:19:04+02:00 List-Id: Gary Scott wrote: > For the stated purpose, Fortran 95/2003 would be just about perfect. It > also has modules, and the syntax is generally more math-like and intuitive. Unfortunately, math intuition can be deceptive when it comes to those naughty computers. They just don't want to behave like you would expect, being guided by mathematical preconceptions. They behave like computers. They require each and every step to be modeled in terms of these restricted computer thingies. Why not start with computers, then learn about the mathematics of programs and then see how the knowledge can be employed to solve other mathematical problems. Or even to just solve problems. If an exercise should lead the student to an understanding of computers, where does mathematical intuition lead? Does mathematical intuition help with how to control a computer with the help of a programs? Is mathematical high school knowledge helpful at all? I remember exercises being taken from math. Easy ones requiring only that students know the meaning of the word that the instructor had chosen for "calculating the sum of line lengths" of some geometrical figure. If you had taken math at school, you will probably remember. Other exercises, later, involved concepts from 3rd semester math. Too bad if this math concept hadn't been taught as part of 3rd semester physics education. "Engineers, you are interested in mathematics, so I'll just explain it in mathematical terms..." [noise level increasing due to higher participation in murmur that the remark had caused.] There is a preoccupation with the parts of mathematics that math-trained CS instructors happen to know. That's education by assumption! Suppose that in early computer education the math-centric problems were replaced with equally programmable formal problems taken from neurobiology, 3rd semester. What is going to happen? Outrage! Because obviously mathematicians can't be supposed to know about neurobiology. By any educational logic. But CS students know mathematics, because, you know, it's the same thing, basically. Or take problems from chemistry, 3rd semester? Or from econometry, 3rd course? I guess this then will be the first time that the CS mathematicians start seeing the harm that their intuition is doing to computer programming... -- Georg Bauhaus Y A Time Drain http://www.9toX.de