From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,250dad5a807b9ca8 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-02-13 08:37:23 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!west.cox.net!cox.net!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.clear.net.nz!news.clear.net.nz.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:36:40 -0600 From: Craig Carey Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: JVM News Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 05:36:37 +1300 Message-ID: <45fn4v02qogsiv58aj7rhsog2pkudvae59@4ax.com> References: <3E4439BD.E9F65671@easystreet.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Customer of Mercury Telecommunications Ltd Cache-Post-Path: drone5.qsi.net.nz!unknown@tnt1-203.quicksilver.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: drone5-svc-skyt.qsi.net.nz X-Original-Trace: 14 Feb 2003 05:36:35 +1300, drone5-svc-skyt.qsi.net.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.97.37.6 X-Trace: sv3-atloXzXv+rRvdcMJs+LQNXUfsLnAF6syaRl6NRLrXzMrTxWRZ0glV4FSWpnaXVgcADJnPTTX8LceEdW!zNXPSXTOfwhvGd9Dz2ro9Uh4KufspSzpxwhjTBjxE1NLuX3oKGmszVuGR7s/AZZnEHL+IZiEaM56!dZg2ls0= X-Complaints-To: Complaints to abuse@clear.net.nz X-DMCA-Complaints-To: Complaints to abuse@clear.net.nz X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:34058 Date: 2003-02-14T05:36:37+13:00 List-Id: On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:57:01 -0800, achrist@easystreet.com wrote: >Here is some info about the JVM from Sun that may give a clue why JGnat >never became a successful product for ACT: > >http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321 > > It seems like Sun has decided that Java won't be debugged which would cause irreparable damage to the sellability of that product item. A summary of the memo follows. It is about the JVM in the Solaris OS. Subject: Sun says 22% of JVM bugs left unfixed (apparently) > >A website hosting some internal memorandums, & a [leaked] Sun memo: > >http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321 > (The date of the leaked Sun memo seems to be 2001 or 2002.) ... > >| Sun Microsystems >| >| The Java Problem >| Author: Julian S. Taylor >| Reviewed by: Steve Talley, Mark Carlson, Henry Knapp, >| Willy (Waikwan) Hui, Eugene Krivopaltsev, Peter >| Madany, Michael Boucher >| >... >| This document ... represents a consensus of several >| senior engineers within Sun Microsystems. ... Our >| experience in filing bugs against Java has been to see >| them rapidly closed as "will not fix". 22% of accepted >| non-duplicate bugs against base Java are closed in this >| way as opposed to 7% for C++. Key examples include: >| >| 4246106 Large virtual memory consumption of JVM >| 4374713 Anonymous inner classes have incompatible >| serialization >| 4380663 Multiple bottlenecks in the JVM >| 4407856 RMI secure transport provider doesn't timeout >| SSL sessions >| 4460368 For jdk1.4, JTable.setCellSelectionEnabled() >| does not work >| 4460382 For Jdk1.4, the table editors for JTable do not >| work. >| 4433962 JDK1.3 HotSpot JVM crashes Sun Management >| Center Console >| 4463644 Calculation of JTable's height is different for >| jdk1.2 and jdk1.4 >| 4475676 [under jdk1.3.1, new JFrame launch causes >| jumping] >| >| In personal conversations with Java engineers and >| managers, it appears that Solaris is not a priority and >| the resource issues are not viewed as serious. Attempts >| to discuss this have not been productive and the >| message we hear routinely from Java engineering is that >| new features are key and improvements to the foundation >| are secondary. ... >... >| dependencies for deployment". Following is an excerpt: >| >| - Large footprint of applications when run on Solaris. >| A simple application ("hello world" type) has a total >| footprint of 35-40 megs on Solaris 9 (build 48, using >| Java 1.4 build 82) on both Intel and Sparc machines. >| Sparc machines, by far, have a much higher resident >| footprint then Intel machines (~30 megs, compared to >| ~11 megs). The same program run on a Windows machine >| has a footprint of ~5 megs, resident footprint being >| ~3.5 megs. >... >| SMC, Sun's flagship system admin console, takes between >| one and two minutes to reach the point that it can be >| used. ... >| >| Given this data, it appears that the JRE can actually >| be simpler than the Python RE since Java does at least >| some of this work at compile time. ... Hello World >| written in Java2 requires 9M for this most basic >| support infrastructure. ... Further examples of what is >| possible include the compiling OO languages Eiffel and >| Sather which fit their garbage collector, exception >| processor and other infrastructure into roughly 400K of >| resident set. >| >| ... It is impractical to run it as a non-terminating >| daemon. ... Java applications cannot be executed at >| boot time since the loading of the VM introduces an >| unacceptable performance degradation. ... >... >| We strongly recommend that management require Java to >| conform to the Software Development Framework >| especially from the standpoint of ARCreview >| [Architecture Review Committees] >... >| What is perhaps more important is that the perception >| of Java as an unstable platform is widespread. This >| perception is restated with every Java-based project to >| come to ARC. Within Sun, Java is not viewed as a >| satisfactory language for the construction of >| commercial applications. > ... >Java is compared with Ada 95 here: > http://www.gnat.com/texts/products/prod_java.htm > >Sun does not seem to have the word Ada in its corporate >vocabulary. They got the word "Eiffel" into their memo though, >a near miss. ... A similar problem is occurring at the Gcc project as it gets slower. There was talk of forking the project. Mr Dewar said that Gcc could be faster. __________________________________________________________________________ At 03\02\12 09:15 -0800 Wednesday, Linus Torvalds wrote to gcc-at-gnu.org ... >That said, at least some comparisons with the Intel compiler on an older >kernel imply that the Intel compiler improves things like UDP and TCP >latency by 10-25% on 2.4.18 (in fact, the UDP path was apparently >magically improved by up to 30%, which is damn impressive): > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=103559880923586&w=2 > >So compiler code generation quality still _does_ matter. It's not as if >the [gcc] code is unoptimizable. > >So: 50% slower compiles from 2.95 to 3.2. With no noticeable improvement. > > Linus __________________________________________________________________________ Actually the Gcc project was forked in about August 2002: __________________________________________________________________________ At 03\02\11 23:32 +0000 Tuesday, Joseph S. Myers wrote: ... >We *have* the faster-compiler-branch, created at the same time as >gcc-3_4-basic-improvements-branch >. It just hasn't been >used, whereas BIB was extensively used. __________________________________________________________________________ Craig Carey http://www.ijs.co.nz/ada_95.htm : Mailing lists