From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,f51e93dacd9c7fca X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-06-18 07:30:44 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: dennison@telepath.com (Ted Dennison) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: status of Ada STL? Date: 18 Jun 2002 07:30:44 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Message-ID: <4519e058.0206180630.b6ef8cd@posting.google.com> References: <3D0D18D5.2020601@telepath.com> <4519e058.0206170611.260a3951@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.115.221.98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1024410644 32720 127.0.0.1 (18 Jun 2002 14:30:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jun 2002 14:30:44 GMT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:26240 Date: 2002-06-18T14:30:44+00:00 List-Id: 18k11tm001@sneakemail.com (Russ) wrote in message news:... > Think about it this way. Immediately after the statement "x=1" > executes, the mathematical statement "x=1" becomes true. The same does > not apply to a statement like "x=x+1", of course, but so what? Anyone Thanks. I could not have come up with a better example of why "=" for assignment is confusing and inappropriate myself. > At that rate, a couple dozen regulars on comp.lang.ada will still be > proudly using Ada after everyone else has forgotten about it -- like The problem with that logic is: o Ada use is increasing already (according to the vendors). o There is absolutely no evidence that minor syntax differences with Python is significantly holding Ada back. That might seem self-obvioius to a big Python fan, but such people are hardly unbiased. Big Lisp fans would probably say the same about Lisp. Big Fourth fans would say the same about Forth. o There is also no evidence that you won't loose all the big Pascal, Modula-*, and Oberon fans who are Ada users by doing this (and there are probably *way* more of those around than interested Python fans). If you hang out here long enough (or read back through the archives), I guarantee you will come across all of the following: o Big C fans who think Ada is only being held back by non-C-like syntax o Big .NET fans who are convinced Ada is only being held back from huge success by lack of .NET support. o Big Java fans who are convinced Ada is only being held back from huge success by lack of JVM support (now obsolete and proven wrong). o Big Delphi fans who are convinced Ada is only being held back due to its lack of a Delphi-like library and interface. o Longtime VisualC++ users who are convinced Ada is only being held back due to lack of a Visual programming environment. I've been here long enough to have heard just about every theory there is. Frankly, I don't think the syntax theories hold any water at all. The programming environment theories are a smidge better, but no more. The main reason hordes of people don't switch to Ada is that programmers are a very conservative lot. Given a choice, they fight hard to use the language they are most familiar with. Programming managers are even more so, since they aren't technically involved enough to have any judgement point other than past use. People comming here saying that Ada use would take off if only it used syntax items from their own favorite other language are just further examples of this principle. If we look at past successes, what builds language bases isn't wonderful syntax, but rather heavy marketing campaigns (with hopefully a germ of truth under all the BS). If we want usage to skyrocket, then we need to somehow foster the (generally self-fufilling) impression that Ada is a "hot" language. Its a bit tough to do that with no big moneybags company like Sun or Microsoft behind us. When someone comes in here and starts an "Ada's syntax is all wrong" thread, if anything its counterproductive. Don't let this stop you from implementing your Pythada preprocessor though. Just don't expect it to be used by anyone but big Python fans new to Ada, very few of which are hanging out in this newsgroup to be recruited. Perhaps you would have more luck getting support from a Python newsgroup.