From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,8623fab5750cd6aa X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!green.octanews.net!news-out.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news.octanews.net!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!d9c68f36!not-for-mail Message-ID: <40CEDCB5.9000509@noplace.com> From: Marin David Condic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (OEM-HPQ-PRS1C03) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Improving Ada's image - Was: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics References: <40b9c99e$0$268$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> <40ba315a$0$254$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> <04udnR-eHNChzSbdRVn-vw@gbronline.com> <7J0xc.7371$8k4.269106@news20.bellglobal.com> <1086630278.542788@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <8xlxc.27603$sS2.845496@news20.bellglobal.com> <1086715817.122983@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1086733411.736049@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <3Auxc.11998$XY6.1296622@read2.cgocable.net> <40C85035.4020706@noplace.com> <40C9EC3B.60304@noplace.com> <40CD90A4.8030005@noplace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:26:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.165.23.116 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1087298783 209.165.23.116 (Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:26:23 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:26:23 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:1496 Date: 2004-06-15T11:26:23+00:00 List-Id: Warren W. Gay VE3WWG wrote: > > > Today's slashdot points out yet another exploit in Linux. > > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/04/1212228&mode=thread&tid=1- > 26&tid=95 > > > We like to deride Windows, but Linux, *NIX in general all suffer from > the same problem. Some of these are no doubt due to design issues > (which Ada may or may not help with). But surely, one has to > wonder/hope if/that some other fundamental change (language) can > offer an improvement. I think many are simply saying that they > believe it to be so. Developing an operating system - any operating system - is inherently complex and extremely difficult to get right. Most of the flaws are *not* going to come from array bounds or integer range check problems. They come from logic problems or timing problems. I know from experience that an asynchronous world is extremely difficult to live in and get right. The logic an OS goes through to schedule multiple processes and handle shared I/O, etc., are all just inherently hard to get right. Coding up an OS in Ada might eliminate some flaws - but they are far from the worst flaws that an OS can have. > > If one can see major improvements on the projects that Ada is used > for, then by extension one has to expect a similar level of > improvement for an operating system. > I think if someone did an OS in Ada they would get some benefits in terms of productivity and error reduction. But those are typically developmental issues - someone can still do it in C and get an equivalent job done, just with added effort. Ada isn't going to automagically make all the problems of getting an OS into stable, secure operation go away - but I'm willing to be proven wrong by demonstration. ;-) > But everyone's point is well taken: where is the Ada OS? We have no > implementation to point to for a comparison. Yup. Its time to shut up about how superior Ada is and how everyone who isn't using it is a bonehead for selecting inferior technology. If that's true, then the time has come to go out and start proving it by developing real world applications that out-compete their rivals because of that superior Ada technology. And that goes double for any sort of Ada OS. All the necessary tools exist. There's a free compiler, IDE, debugger, GUI builder, etc., needed to go write apps in Ada. (I wish they were better integrated, standardized and came with a library, but if we keep waiting for perfection, we'll never be ready.) We can't say "it would be better done in Ada..." now without asking ourselves why we aren't doing it. We will look like fools or cranks to the rest of the world if we keep pissing on their real-world, in-existence apps unless we can actually come up with something that is *better* to put next to it and say "See?!?! The one I built in *Ada* actually *is* better!!!" I can't download and run conceptual vaporware that is only theoretically better. ;-) MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g c n i c . r "Face it ladies, its not the dress that makes you look fat. Its the FAT that makes you look fat." -- Al Bundy ======================================================================