From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5faad1722103f6a7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!bigfeed2.bellsouth.net!news.bellsouth.net!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!d9c68f36!not-for-mail Message-ID: <40BF141F.8020001@noplace.com> From: Marin David Condic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (OEM-HPQ-PRS1C03) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics References: <90Stc.15309$be.3117@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <40b86431$0$186$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <40B888E0.5040707@noplace.com> <40B8C86A.3050302@noplace.com> <40BE6BFD.8030305@noplace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:06:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.165.23.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1086264386 209.165.23.151 (Thu, 03 Jun 2004 05:06:26 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 05:06:26 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:1068 Date: 2004-06-03T12:06:26+00:00 List-Id: I don't deny that Ada is being used. After all, I'm using it. ;-) Sure its out there, but any reasonable assessment of the situation is going to conclude that at best Ada is a niche language. The bulk of software development is being done in some other language besides Ada. This is a shame since Ada is such a good language that it ought to survive, flourish and have a much broader appeal. But so long as it only has this little corner of the market, it is in danger of drying up and blowing away. You've seen the comments by other folks here who have tried to persuade their bosses that Ada is the right answer. The reaction is either "Not *that* dead, old, failure!" or "What's Ada???" The only way Ada gets around that problem is by finding a wider market and having a wider appeal. It dies otherwise. Slowly, to be sure, but ultimately it dies. Do you want to see that happen? I don't. I'd like to see it flourish so my job skills don't become an anachronism. :-) For Ada to get over that difficulty of mental perceptions on the part of too many language choosers, (or their legitimate concerns about tying their project to something that might be on the way out) it needs to build a larger base. How would *you* suggest that happen? (Or would you suggest that it doesn't need to happen? Or would you suggest that Ada is having a Renaissance and new customers are flocking to the door? I'd like to see some evidence of thousands of new products being built in Ada and hundreds of thousands of new programming jobs going to Ada - but check the want ads. Its not happening yet, is it?) To attract new users, Ada needs to do something to give them a reason to look at it seriously - like more leverage than they can get with Java or C++ or whatever else is the hip thing at the moment. To overcome the ocean of objections that get raised against it, Ada needs to show more commercial success - like when someone builds a product using Ada and successfully sells it. The commercial successes are critical or there isn't anybody out there to buy compilers and keep compiler writers alive and there isn't anybody out there to hire Ada programmers and encourage an interest in learning the language. That and I guess I've just become fed up with how we constantly hear things in this forum to the effect that "Ada is so obviously technically superior and is so obviously much more productive that managers who don't pick Ada are all just a bunch of idiots or they're downright corrupt and evil..." (Sounds a lot like the objections people raise against the politicians they don't like. "I'm so *obviously* right that anyone who disagrees with me *must* be stupid or evil.") Its time to put up or shut up - and the rest of the programming world knows it. We live in a free country with a free market. If Ada is so great then go out there and build something wonderful with it and out-compete the evil/stupid managers who won't see the sweet light of reason and pick the "obviously" superior technology? Or admit that Ada doesn't really bring enough leverage to the table to truly make a difference in the bottom line of a business. Or admit to a lack of enough courage and faith in the superiority of Ada to put some money and time on the line to prove it. So Ed, I'd guess I'd say to you that I know that Ada is being used in the 7E7 and elsewhere and I'm really glad that it has some market there. I'd like to see it have more of a market so it has long-term survival and prosperity prospects. But this thread got started with a complaint about how another stupid program manager went and picked C++ and it got me on my soapbox. Its time for people who believe in Ada's superiority to quit complaining about other people's choices and actually start *doing* something with it that builds real-world products that sell and make money. MDC Ed Falis wrote: > > I don't get it Marin (well, actually I do). I presented a certain > amount of evidence that on the program in question, that started this > thread, Ada will be used fairly widely, for good program management > reasons. Yet you keep repeating that it's not happening, hasn't > happened, won't happen. What gives? Have you got so caught up on the > soapbox that you don't see where Ada is reasonably successful, because > of the places it's not? > > You and I know each other for a lot of years, and understand each other > to be fairly reasonable people, right? So why ignore reality in this > case for the sake of ideology? > > - Ed -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g c n i c . r "Face it ladies, its not the dress that makes you look fat. Its the FAT that makes you look fat." -- Al Bundy ======================================================================