From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,3a4656a5edc0dab4 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public Path: controlnews3.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!c03.atl99!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!d9c68f36!not-for-mail Message-ID: <40A9FBD4.40707@noplace.com> From: Marin David Condic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (OEM-HPQ-PRS1C03) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications? References: <409F69CB.8020604@noplace.com> <40A218DD.9090903@noplace.com> <40A36368.7050104@noplace.com> <40A8AF7C.5000608@noplace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:05:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.66.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1084881901 165.247.66.2 (Tue, 18 May 2004 05:05:01 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:05:01 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: controlnews3.google.com comp.lang.ada:668 Date: 2004-05-18T12:05:01+00:00 List-Id: I've seen Ada used by defense contractors in more workstation-ish applications doing network communication, etc. That's not really "Embedded". In what *is* "embedded", it is typically restricted to the larger processors in defense related applications. In most commercial stuff and most of the smaller processor arenas (making up most of the "embedded" market) Ada gets ranked behind "other" in language used to implement. C is typically the language of choice - mostly because that's what comes with the development kit. However you slice it, Ada is near zero in utilization in the embedded community and is basically hated and derided - or simply ignored. My guess is that vendors are not going to make much money off of that market and that trying to cater to it is too expensive. I don't know who ACT's customers are, but the last time I checked they were not selling a compiler that is aimed at "embedded" systems. They market a compiler that mostly wants to run on top of Unix and isn't targeted to popular embedded processors. Perhaps it *can* be utilized in some embedded/realtime applications, but I don't think they go out of their way to try to make a kit to do so. (Perhaps they'd like to bid on the next engine control I'll be working on?) So I'm guessing that there must be *some* usage of Ada in areas that are not what most people would call "embedded". I think we don't disagree on the fact that Ada is not highly utilized in anything outside of the Defense/Realtime market and that this market is dwindling. We might even agree as to some of the reasons why Ada is losing out. We probably even agree that Ada is like that tree with the Dutch Elm Disease - dying but not entirely gone yet. Where we disagree is in what to do about it. You're convinced it is doomed and hopeless - why don't you just give up and spend your time on something you *do* think has a future? (I'm not trying to be mean here - if you really believe it is hopeless, you would likely be better off focusing in on something you *do* believe has a future.) I'm convinced that it could be turned around and perhaps Ada could find a market in which it could thrive - but it needs a new strategy to do so. So far, I don't see the vested interests in Ada calling for a meeting to discuss what market they'd like to shoot for and how best to address it with a new strategy. (I could probably host it if they asked real nice. :-) If Ada really *is* better and *does* produce better products at a lesser cost, then perhaps it could be a competitive advantage in some market. That means that the believers in Ada should try to utilize Ada in some manner to build some end-product and sell it. We've got compilers. We've got some tools & libraries. (They could obviously be better integrated and more standardized) Why not dream up some useful product and go build it using Ada? Start *selling* something that uses Ada as a component and you generate compiler business to keep the likes of ACT, RR, Aonix, et alia, in the Ada-making business. MDC Randy Brukardt wrote: > > You said: "The embedded market already hates Ada with the white hot > intensity of a thousand suns for a variety of historical reasons." And I > pointed out that the only significant use of Ada is in embedded systems. > That means either your statement is wrong, or Ada is doomed - in fact it is > already dead, like a tree with Dutch Elm Disease. The leaves haven't found > out yet. > > Both RRS and Aonix spent a lot of effort trying to push Ada into more > mainstream programming. Neither company was successful, and both companies > have pretty much given up. Besides, non-embedded programming is on its way > to extinction anyway - those projects and jobs are rapidly moving to very > low-cost countries. Obviously, quality isn't even on the radar. > > Ada's only chance for further expansion is in various kinds of embedded > systems (bigger ones; Ada isn't really suited for single-board computers). > -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g c n i c . r "Face it ladies, its not the dress that makes you look fat. Its the FAT that makes you look fat." -- Al Bundy ======================================================================