From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5cb36983754f64da X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2004-04-07 04:38:54 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!d9c68f36!not-for-mail Message-ID: <4073E83C.30402@noplace.com> From: Marin David Condic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (OEM-HPQ-PRS1C03) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:38:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.165.3.143 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1081337933 209.165.3.143 (Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:38:53 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:38:53 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:6806 Date: 2004-04-07T11:38:53+00:00 List-Id: A manager's reasons for selecting a language are not necessarily "supreme" - other than in the sense that ultimately, they have to make the decision and be responsible for the net effect so their reasons trump those of the technocrat. Also, often, the manager is operating on the recommendations of his staff - who are technical - and they have reasons to want to use something other than Ada as well. The manager's reasons are also not "unknowable". Usually, all you have to do is ask. When I try to persuade those above me or my customers that Ada is technically superior and they should choose it, I take time to listen when they say "Yes, but....." As it turns out, the reasons they have are - as you observe - not "technical" in nature. They are usually more practical business concerns. (And lest we all forget, business concerns are important because without paying attention to them, we're all out of jobs.) Try some of these: "People I interview for jobs don't know Ada and don't want to know Ada - they want to use languages they like & will be marketable. How do I hire the programmers I need?" "My staff doesn't like Ada and I don't want to force them to use something they don't like because they won't be as productive." "Industry in general ignores Ada so I can't get the tools I need - or I can only at a much higher cost..." "Other, more popular languages, come with things that give me leverage in developing the product I need so I get to market sooner..." "I've already got existing software in Language X and all the related things I have to connect to are in Language X, so why do I want to incur the extra cost of using some other language?" 'Ada is a dying language and I need to use something that is going to have a future..." There are obviously more but the important thing is that these concerns are *REAL* and *VALID* - if not *TECHNICAL*. So if Ada doesn't want to just slowly go down the toilet, it ought to look to addressing the concerns of that manager voicing those objections. Telling him he's wrong and stupid is only going to get you dismissed as a kook because he *knows* his concerns are legetimate and important. Why not address those concerns and take the language in a new direction that might start alleviating some of them? MDC Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > > BTW, there is no big difference between the "luck-based" theory and one of > Marin. Both agree that technical issues are irrelevant. The "luck-based" > theory stops here. Marin and you continue that probably managers have some > other [supreme, unknowable] reasons for their choices. Maybe. But this > changes nothing. And nothing techincal can be made about Ada to change > that. Because see above, technical issues are irrelevant. > -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g c n i c . r "Face it ladies, its not the dress that makes you look fat. Its the FAT that makes you look fat." -- Al Bundy ======================================================================