From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5cb36983754f64da X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2004-04-03 08:54:28 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!d9c68f36!not-for-mail Message-ID: <406EEC35.7040109@noplace.com> From: Marin David Condic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (OEM-HPQ-PRS1C03) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language) References: <20040206174017.7E84F4C4114@lovelace.ada-france.org> <54759e7e.0402071124.322ea376@posting.google.com> <406EB6D2.8030801@noplace.com> <87d66pyw1g.fsf@insalien.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:54:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.165.4.9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1081011268 209.165.4.9 (Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:54:28 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:54:28 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:6728 Date: 2004-04-03T16:54:28+00:00 List-Id: Ludovic Brenta wrote: > > At least by my definition, a "standard" is an official document > published by an official standards body such as ISO, ANSI, W3C, IETF, > or IEEE. > Perhaps technically true, but at the end of the day, it is a distinction lost in practical application. Is ISO the only way to have a "standard"? Sun is pretty huge in its own right and within the context of the Java world, they are as capable of establishing a "standard" as anybody else. "Standard" by virtue of the fact that they define what the language is and wherever you see "Java" you can count on it containing certain things. Its just a "standard" that doesn't make it easy for someone else to present a competing implementation. Standards are a wonderful thing. Everyone should have one of their own. :-) > > But all this is nitpicking. Marin is right in saying that Java > appears to have more leverage to people who won't spend time choosing > the best tools for the job. They would like an all-in-one, > one-stop-shop solution for most of their problems, and Java does > provide that while Ada doesn't. Unless... you consider Debian :) > I'd differ in this respect: What makes something "The Best Tool For The Job"? Ada is superior in some technical aspects to other languages such as Java when considering the language definition alone. But if Ada doesn't provide as much stuff in its toolbox, isn't that in some respect making it a less satisfactory tool? Or if the implementation under consideration isn't very good, does it still qualify as the best tool just because in theory it could be better? The best tool for the job is the tool that lets me do the job while optimizing cost, schedule and quality. We tend to be convinced that Ada offers superior quality when one considers only the language proper. That may even be true in most cases, but it often ignores cost and schedule in evaluating "The Best Tool For The Job". "Quality" can be a relative thing - do I really need gold-plated screws when I'm building a birdhouse? Even if Java as a language doesn't detect as many bugs as does Ada, the presence of a well worn library means I'm not generating new and potentially buggy code to do the same thing. Might that not result in a higher quality end product - while reducing my costs and improving my schedule? People don't select Java because they are fools. They often select Java over Ada for all sorts of legitimate and important reasons. If we want to get them selecting Ada over Java, we have to understand those reasons and come to the table being a better satisfier of those needs. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g c n i c . r "Face it ladies, its not the dress that makes you look fat. Its the FAT that makes you look fat." -- Al Bundy ======================================================================