From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 11232c,877ba3d67e73c6c3 X-Google-Attributes: gid11232c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ac39a12d5faf5b14 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-04-12 11:29:49 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!195.40.4.120.MISMATCH!easynet-quince!easynet.net!proxad.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.mailgate.org!mygate.mailgate.org!198.207.153.205!not-for-mail From: "Kent Paul Dolan" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,misc.misc Subject: Re: Rant! (was) Development process in the Ada community Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:29:47 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG Message-ID: <3e83a745de26c77e16a9a7760167e662.48257@mygate.mailgate.org> References: <3CB46975.90408@snafu.de> <87ads8sugb.fsf@deneb.enyo.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.207.153.205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.mailgate.org 1018608681 3778 198.207.153.205 (Fri Apr 12 20:29:47 2002) X-Complaints-To: abuse@mailgate.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:29:47 +0000 (UTC) Injector-Info: news.mailgate.org; posting-host=198.207.153.205; posting-account=48257; posting-date=1018608681 User-Agent: Mailgate Web Server X-URL: http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/comp/comp.lang.ada/3e83a745de26c77e16a9a7760167e662.48257%40mygate.mailgate.org Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:22442 misc.misc:6263 Date: 2002-04-12T18:29:47+00:00 List-Id: "Florian Weimer" wrote: > What "success of Java" are you talking about? Hardly anybody is using > Java in areas it was originally marketed for. Umm, which is why MS tried so hard to sabotage it and create a version locked to MS-Windows that it took a court order to break up their little game? I think your view of reality is flawed here. > Scripting languages like Perl and PHP encourage a development model > which is mostly incompatible with Ada. I don't think many scripting > language enthusiasts can be converted to Ada. You must not use them much, then. Scripting languages are "glue" languages, used to put software written in other languages into compatibly working clusters. In particular, Larry Wall created PERL to be a glue language. http://www.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/10/cov_13feature.html I cannot imagine the particular choice of programming language determining the development model. You can go SEI CMM level 5 in PERL, Ada, Logo, or any other programming language; the development model is pretty much an orthogonal issue to the choice of programming language. I will grant that one can _also_ use PERL to "hack out a quick solution", but then, that's what it's intended to be, a multi-pronged tool for getting to the needed result with low pain and high speed. I refused to learn PERL (line noise incarnate to the uninitiated) until long after I learned Ada. Then I finally used PERL, and regretted the six years I had pushed it aside. I'd just like to see Ada pick up some of the really nifty features of PERL, but then I'd like to see all of my programming languages (all nine or ten dozen, but I've forgotten most of them by now, luckily, or my poor head would have exploded) do the same. There isn't a programming language alive that couldn't use PERL's parsing power. Somewhere off this thread with a broken references pointer is a remark that PERL is a "write once, read never" language, or some such. Not so. Like C, like APL, PERL is a "takes time to learn" language. Once you get into it, its sheer beauty and economy of expression will amaze you; it was, after all, designed by a guy with his undergraduate training in linguistics. PERL, whether you buy the "Practical Extraction and Report-writing Language" which is the official version, or the creator's "Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister", is a tool any professional programmer wants in his or her toolkit. Meanwhile, getting back on topic, it is exactly this concept that Ada has some sacred development model that seems to be paralyzing improvements in Ada as a programming language, and impoverishing Ada as a programming community. Development models are not programming languages, nor does improving a language damage a development model! xanthian. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG