From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,42490cad53ee37fa X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!4988f22a!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: Subject: Re: NOACE- End of the road for Ada? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <3e6_d.23843$OU1.11242@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.109.140.157 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.com 1111027711 ST000 69.109.140.157 (Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:48:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:48:31 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: TSU[@SBEQJV]SQ@[EZOD]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 02:48:31 GMT Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9530 Date: 2005-03-17T02:48:31+00:00 List-Id: "Robert A Duff" wrote in message news:wccoedjs5t4.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com... > > Richard, > > I think you misunderstand Jared's point. He's not saying Java syntax is > "better" -- he's saying it's comfortable to folks used to C syntax. > That seems quite likely true. If you're a C programmer, you're used to > seeing lots of curly braces all over, and you're used to declaring > variables by putting the type name first (int X instead of X: int). > Switching to Java is then comfortable. Switching to Ada is not -- you > have to get used to "end if" instead of "}" and so forth. > Yes, I understand that. When I speak Japanese I have to get used to the idea that the verb comes at the end of the sentence. When I speak Russian, I have to learn to use the inflexional case structure and post-fix grammatical constructs to make myself understood. And when I speak Chinese, the grammar is so subtle, the tone system so important that I can easily end up calling my best friend a fried panda turd. (some hyperbole there for effect) > I think that's a big part of the reason Java is so popular -- it gives a > comfortable syntax, plus garbage collection, no confusion between arrays > and pointers, etc. > Next Quarter I am teaching, once again, a class called programming paradigms. The students enter this class with at least two Quarters of Java under their belt -- or elsewhere, depending on our anatomical sense of humor. I jolt them out of their Java thinking by starting them with functional programming: Lisp, Scheme, ML, Haskell, etc. It is important that they learn that Java is only one language, and only one way of solving programming problems, and not necessarily the best way. Later, they learn more about C++, Ada, and eventually Smalltalk. They even get a taste of Eiffel, C#, and some other nicely designe languages.One of my missions in this class is to get them to understand that it is not intellectually healthy to know only one programming language. > I happen to be comfortable with Ada syntax, so I find "int X" bass > ackwards. (But then I also find "package X" backwards; it should be > "X: package". The most important thing about a declaration (its name) > should come first. Then what sort of thing it is. Then more details.) > Yes. I understand. I have often wished that a package could be a first-class object, but one cannot have everything. If we were designing Ada from scratch, we would probably do a lot of things different. Still, no one has done all the right things even with languages developed subsequent to Ada. There are so many things I admire about Eiffel, but it falls a little short of what I would hope for. Still, I would select Eiffel over most other languages if I did not have Ada, and sometimes I would pick it even if I did have Ada. I can think of no circumstances where I would deliberately choose C++. Richard Riehle