From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,636bd17773010d45 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 1994-12-13 21:55:53 PST Path: nntp.gmd.de!Germany.EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!smm From: smm@bix.com (smm) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Where to buy compiler Date: 14 Dec 1994 05:55:53 GMT Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation Message-ID: <3cm1d9$q2u@news1.delphi.com> References: <3c27rn$mf4@mark.ucdavis.edu> <3c54q9$5mb@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: bix.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: 1994-12-14T05:55:53+00:00 List-Id: David Weller (dweller@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM) wrote: : Getting shelf space for an Ada compiler is next to impossible. Hell, : even finding Smalltalk on the shelf is difficult. Alas, there's even : (or even a denial). In any case, the chance of a "low cost" compiler : for the PCs does't look very promising (All you vendors: Don't follow : up to this post and say "We think $999 is low cost for a PC" :-). That's bad news. I'm glad you mentioned Smalltalk. There's a "non-C" language where at least one vendor _DOESN'T_ _HAVE_ _A_ _UNIX_ _PRODUCT_ (Digitalk) and they've been in business and heavily hacking and improving their product for quite some time. I could be mistaken, but I don't think IBM's new Smalltalk supports Unix either (yes, NEW) but at least all their advertising talks about Windows. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Folks peddle brain damaged ports of language Z to the PC that typically (1) cost way too much and (2) require oodles of RAM, often to compile, much less write a program, (3) charge license fees for distributing programs or (4) are small and crippled for "educational use". And the peddling isn't very good. No add's in popular trade rags, PR targeted at reviewers, columnists, etc. Meanwhile a $89 C++ compiler supports Windows, has a giant class library devoted to making Windows simple, has a visual programming environment, has a GUI builder, has a slick debugger, AND (for techies) has what many call is the slickest templates implementation on the market. And the "non-C" language community has the balls to boo hoo hoo over why their language is "obscure". Well no shit. WAKE UP. The mainframe is dying. The mini is dying. Monolithic frame works are coming and "portability" is going or will be achieved only at _enourmous_ cost (like Taligent's efforts). The language becomes increasingly a vehicle to access pre-canned services (DBMS's, mail API's, etc.) It's all "bindings" and it will be a scramble just to _KEEP UP_ with the API explosion on the popular platforms. OpenGL comes to Windows and you know where the slickest supporting tools/OOP Wrappers/etc. will be in a years time. You've got teams devoted to this stuff at MS, Borland, IBM. (Borland does this kind of work for Pascal, a "non-C" language). I happen to be a BIG NON-C LANGUAGE ADVOCATE. But with this sort of vendor behavior, we might as well GIVE UP. Where the hell is the "OLE-2 Component Design Kit" based on Eiffel, ADA, Common Lisp, Scheme, ML, Sather, Modula-3. This is the _SWEET SPOT_ of the market place. This is the stuff a bunch of ex-accountants will learn so that they can go train MIS shops. This is the stuff that makes it to Crown Books book shops. This is the stuff that crosses the desk of managers in their trade rags. Meanwhile, a bunch of us nerds pat ourselves on the back because the nifty language Z now compiles on the Alpha CPU, not just the Sun (but not Solaris). The debugger will be done in 6 months. The MIPS port lost funding. Ha ha ha. You want to stroke desk officers? You want to run on 1K little chips? You want to teach how to write a better "hello, world" to college freshman? You want to play around with better register allocators? You want to make sure the nuclear reactor doesn't blow up? Ok. Then use ADA, Forth, Scheme, Modual3 or Eiffel. This is what the market is telling us. You want to make a company that sells an E-Mail package to pre-teens with Internet accounts? You want to do contract programming for the giant market of Windows users? You want to write a DLL that ferrets the database connection handle out of the client runtime system because the debug messages are faulty (a real recent problem, but typical of C/Pascal hacking in MIS shops) -- then you use C/C++/Pascal -- That's what the market is telling us. IT'S TOO BAD BECAUSE FOR MOST TASKS C/C++/PASCAL SUCKS! This just DRIVES ME CRAZY! The vendors need a big kick in the ass and a giant dose of Wall Street and a giant dose of Main Street.