From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,7bcba1db9ed24fa7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-08 14:38:04 PST Reply-To: "Andrzej Lewandowski" From: "Andrzej Lewandowski" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <3B460DA9.C2965042@ix.netcom.com> <9ff447f2.0107061757.34ca0723@posting.google.com> <3B475678.C582735D@worldnet.att.net> <3b478165_3@news3.prserv.net> Subject: Re: is ada dead? Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:38:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-12-64-145-115.mis.prserv.net Message-ID: <3b48d207_1@news3.prserv.net> X-Trace: 8 Jul 2001 21:35:03 GMT, slip-12-64-145-115.mis.prserv.net Organization: Global Network Services - Remote Access Mail & News Services X-Complaints-To: abuse@prserv.net Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-was.dfn.de!znr.news.ans.net!newsfeed.us.prserv.net!prserv.net!news3.prserv.net!slip-12-64-145-115.mis.prserv.net Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9645 Date: 2001-07-08T17:38:05-05:00 List-Id: "Michal Nowak" wrote in message news:mailman.994589417.11908.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org... > On 01-07-07, at 17:41, Andrzej Lewandowski wrote: > > >But almost everybody is using Java and almost non\body is using Ada. > > And who is using it? I don't. Your problem, your choice. > Maybe except applets on www pages. > And you think it is good? Java was intended to be more OO-language than > C++, to help desingning good software. It is step forward in some parts, > but I think it can cause bad habits. Many my friends write in Java - they > turned into "Java-people". But only little percent of them writes good > code. In many cases Java code bacame more messy than C++ code. ??? > Yes, garbage collector made them lazy. "I put it here or there, never > mind, garbage collector will do its job". They gaining bad habits. Java > can be one-way ticket. Switching back to other languages can be difficult > (I observed this on labs - many of them had big problems in learning Ada > and trobles in understaning it.) I was thinking the same way when I was in the Academia. Now I am working for industry. My company has good programmers, good designers and they are writing good Java code. All these are not oxymorons. Good programmer will write good program in any language, bad programmer will write bad program in any language. have you ever seem C program written in Ada? You can find some excellent examples in some book published long ago by Springer. By the way, we have commercial system for logistics management that sells pretty well. It is all in Java, over 300 KLOC. Yes, Java has its problems, threading model is one of them. I made an attempt to use Ada (JGNAT strictly speaking) to write selected modules. Unfortunately, the cost of support was prohibitive. I am ready to pay for support, but the cost must be in sync with the rest of industry. Java threading model can be easily fixed. I am using CSP model, strictly speaking JCSP implementation from the University of Kent. Great! Switching to new language is business decision. Such transition costs a lot and must be carefully justified. I really cannot find arguments to switch to Ada. For what?... No programmers, tools in 6 digit range, vendors with unknown financial future. Moreover, except of programmers we have QA specialists, implementation services, maintenance service, etc. All these people should know the language to some extent. How it would cost to replace 50 people? Or to retrain them? And for what? To have "better" language? A.L>