From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10fec3,ef0074ec236ba6e3 X-Google-Attributes: gid10fec3,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,ef0074ec236ba6e3 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 108a70,ef0074ec236ba6e3 X-Google-Attributes: gid108a70,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,ef0074ec236ba6e3 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 111308,ef0074ec236ba6e3 X-Google-Attributes: gid111308,public X-Google-Thread: 108717,ef0074ec236ba6e3 X-Google-Attributes: gid108717,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,b19fa62fdce575f9 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,ef0074ec236ba6e3 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 1994-11-19 08:16:47 PST Path: nntp.gmd.de!xlink.net!news.dfn.de!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!seunet!enea.se!enea.se!not-for-mail From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c,comp.programming,comp.lang.c++,comp.object,comp.databases.sybase,comp.databases.oracle,comp.client-server Subject: Re: Why don't large companies use Ada? Date: 15 Nov 1994 16:56:08 +0100 Organization: Foresta dell'estate Message-ID: <3aalmo$4el@gordon.enea.se> References: <3a6oc5$dkh@nntp1.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: gordon.enea.se Xref: nntp.gmd.de comp.lang.ada:16812 comp.lang.c:69055 comp.programming:12909 comp.lang.c++:79515 comp.object:17530 comp.databases.sybase:13148 comp.databases.oracle:22436 comp.client-server:6905 Date: 1994-11-15T16:56:08+01:00 List-Id: Brian J. Zimbelman (bjz@innsol.com) writes: >I think one major reason has been omitted from the discussion. A major factor >in what language I develop in is what language the company/department already >has invested in. Ada developers are rare. C/C++ developers are all over the >place. Therefore, most of the time, my customers want the product in C or >C++. The price of software is not how much it costs to develop it, but how >much it costs to maintain it. If I can't find a developer who knows the >language it was developed in, then I chose the wrong language no matter how >cheap the initial development was. I'd like to contest this. Not the conclusion in the latter part of the text, but the presumption in the first part. Sure, C programmers come 13 by the dozen, but good C++ programmers? OK, I only have the perspective the Swedish market, so I might be very wrong, but here the situation is that if you know C++ well, you have lots of jobs to choose from. Or can make a good living as a consultant. My point is that just because you know C, doesn't mean that you have less to learn to become a good C++ programmer, than someone whose never seen C before. In fact, if you have experience in Eiffel, Simula, Smalltalk or any other O-O language, you are probably better fitted than the guy who has been hacking C for 10 years, but cannot spell to imheritance, eh I mean inheritance. >From this follows that if you have a bunch of C programmers (or Cobol programmers, an even more common phenonemom), you wish to re-educate, Ada or C++ is not much difference. It is a considerable investment in both cases. Of course, in real life managers think it is much easier to upgrade the C programmer to a C++ programmer than an Ada one, and goes on shooting himself in the foot. Then again, I have a feeling that everyone who say that they are using C++ are really doing it. They might use it as a C compiler with strict type checking, which undeniably is a great leap forward. But sometimes the C++ compiler is too slow, so they don't even use it... No matter what, another poster was optimistic and hoped that Ada 9x will become popular. How much I like Ada, I fear that it is too late. Ada 83 has a few weaknesses, not O-O for instance, but still superiour to C++ if you ask me. But such considerations has never had much im- portance in the software industry. Fortran, Cobol, C and now C++, that just how the story goes. (Although I must hasten to add that in comparison with the first three, C++ is an enormous improvment.) -- Erland Sommarskog, sommar@enea.se, Stockholm Pour qui est-ce qui vous croyez que je parle?