From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,1fb7f2283a6b04a0 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-10-27 18:10:38 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!d9c68f36!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3F9DD01B.6000908@noplace.com> From: Marin David Condic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (OEM-HPQ-PRS1C03) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Grace 0.51 released References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:10:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.165.28.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1067307037 209.165.28.75 (Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:10:37 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:10:37 EST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:1757 Date: 2003-10-28T02:10:37+00:00 List-Id: Nick Roberts wrote: > Stephen Leake wrote: >> In the context of the long-lasting "yet another Ada library" thread, >> remember all the discussion a couple years ago about Grace? How many >> people have contributed? Two. > > > Or alternatively, let's call it 'Charles', or maybe 'ASCL', or 'Booch', > or 'PragmARC', or 'GAPSE', or 'AdaSL', or 'SAL', or 'Tenet', or ... > And therein ought to lie a clue as to how successful all this can be in getting a Conventional Ada Library going. Grace and others were well meaning efforts that depended on volunteers with no real sanction by anybody in the Ada compiler business and no funding of any sort. They basically languished or were not adopted in any wholesale manner. It isn't to criticize the efforts - just to realize that we are *not* going to get some kind of conventional library going by volunteering for another effort at remaking things that have not succeeded in becoming a standard already. Its been *TRIED* numerous times before. If its going to work, it needs a different model. If everyone wanted to get on board with Grace (or Charles, or ASCL or Booch or PragmARC, or....) I'd be with them. What is going to get one of these accepted as the basis on which to build a bigger "Conventional Ada Library"??? I just don't see it happening without even one vendor on board. Nor do I see it succeeding long term without some kind of money invested. Lets quit kidding ourselves that we'll all invest thousands of hours in building a library without any compensation for the good of Ada and expect that all the Ada users will suddenly hop on board and start using what we've so generously given them. It hasn't worked. It isn't going to work. Let's find a different way to do it. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g c n i c . r "So if I understand 'The Matrix Reloaded' correctly, the Matrix is basically a Microsoft operating system - it runs for a while and then crashes and reboots. By design, no less. Neo is just a memory leak that's too hard to fix, so they left him in... The users don't complain because they're packed in slush and kept sedated" -- Marin D. Condic ======================================================================