From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,2d2df3e9ad18fa63 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-06-21 05:13:20 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!elnk-pas-nf2!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!harp.news.atl.earthlink.net!not-for-mail From: Marin David Condic Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: ISO/IEC 14519 - Ada POSIX binding Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:11:37 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <3EF44B79.2000407@noplace.com> References: <3EF2F6B8.3030706@noplace.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.b4.15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 21 Jun 2003 12:11:46 GMT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (OEM-HPQ-PRS1C03) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:39522 Date: 2003-06-21T12:11:46+00:00 List-Id: Ludovic Brenta wrote: > > > POSIX has been around for a long time now, and yes, people do rely on > it. The revision process is long and thorough, much like the Ada > standard's. > I think yuou missed my point. If "Standard X" cites "Standard Y" and there is any change to "Standard Y", then "Standard X" has a problem of being potentially out of date. It doesn't matter how long "Standard Y" has been around - it is a separate standard subject to its own updates, enhancements, etc. It would be better for "Standard X" to specify its needs in such a way that "Standard Y" might be one method of solving them, but not necessarily the only method. > > POSIX stands for Portable Operating System Interface for uniX. It > defines only the API and its semantics, not how the API is > implemented. If there is an underlying POSIX-compliant operating > system, then the implementation is trivial. If there is an OS that is > not POSIX-compliant, then the implementation is a thick binding to the > OS. For bare boards, there is of course a higher implementation cost. > But I submit that: > Yes, I know what POSIX is. I also know that not every operating system on the planet is POSIX-compliant. I also know that there are machines with no OS - presumably a sockets package would be an optional thing for implementations that didn't require it. I am not against POSIX - I just think that if Ada is going to have some kind of sockets package, it ought to abstract itself one layer away at least so that POSIX is not the only possible answer. > > > On the contrary, as I said, POSIX _is_ an abstract interface, and > implementations have some freedom in how they implement it. > It is an "abstract interface" for a UNIX-like implementation. There are OS's besides UNIX and possibly in the next ten years or so that an Ada standard would have to live, there may be a bunch more non-UNIX operating systems out there. I have no objection to POSIX or UNIX - just suggesting that an Ada standard would do well to not dictate either POSIX or UNIX as the only possible answer. > P.S. There is already an implementation of the POSIX standard > available at no cost under the GPL. It is called FLORIST and is > maintained by ACT. From what I understand, it is currently a thin > binding to a POSIX-compliant underlying OS (including sockets), but > providing alternative package bodies is probably feasible for all > kinds of platforms. I am aware of FLORIST. You'd have a problem getting FLORIST adopted as the Ada standard - primarily because it is vendor specific and GPL licensed. Other vendors will want an answer that does not put GNAT/ACT in the driver's seat. (Although this might be a moot issue. One has to wonder how many of the other Ada vendors have a vigorous interest in future Ada standards. Or are many of them looking at it as a cash-cow to be milked for whatever they can get and then move on to more profitable markets?) MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jast.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." -- Voltaire ======================================================================