From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,TO_NO_BRKTS_FROM_MSSP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 103376,325c54deb91283fd X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-04-29 09:15:40 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3EAEA52A.585211BF@raytheon.com> From: Jerry Petrey <"jdpetrey"@raytheon.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD CSC;Raytheon (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada in Iraq References: <1051282861.155019@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1051548320.145019@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1051562794.271242@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1051623300.735620@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:15:38 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 147.24.93.55 X-Complaints-To: news@ext.ray.com X-Trace: bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com 1051632940 147.24.93.55 (Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:15:40 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:15:40 EDT Organization: Raytheon Company Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:36734 Date: 2003-04-29T09:15:38-07:00 List-Id: Hyman Rosen wrote: > Preben Randhol wrote: > > C++ > > I don't why you keep harping on C++. I'm not talking > about C++, I'm talking about whether you can take > programmers who don't know Ada and have them produce > a well-designed system in Ada before they acquire a > deep and thorough understanding of the language. Hyman, I understand your point. I think some of the worst code I have ever seen has been Ada written by people who still think in their old language (Fortran, C, etc.) and who have not taken (or been given) the time to learn Ada properly. Companies rarely devote much to training their people in a new language and unfortunately, many software engineers also don�t devote much to this effort. The attitude is that if you know how to program in one language, you can learn how to use another with little effort. While this may be true, I contend that you won�t be writing the best (and most maintainable) code unless to devote some serious effort in learning to �think� in the new language. This is true in any language, I believe, which is probably what Preben was trying to say when he challenged you about your question. That said, I still feel that Ada offers a great advantage over most other languages in that even code written by under trained newcomers is still more maintainable and the strong typing and compiler checking helps these programmers to become more proficient. Some of the things that would make a huge improvement in software quality, safety and maintainability would be: 1. Companies would allow developers to expend the extensive effort required to become true craftsmen in the language chosen. 2. Managers would manage. Experienced developers would have more control over the project. 3. A good process would be followed without exceptions. 4. Thorough testing would be done. 5. The first attempt on a new application (especially by a team inexperienced with the language) would be treated as a learning experience, discarded and rewritten. 6. The proper tools would be acquired and kept up to date. Since these things are rarely done, I think the advantages of Ada gives it an edge in the software development process and we need every bit of help possible because most projects are so poorly managed and have time and budget constraints. Jerry -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Jerry Petrey -- Senior Principal Systems Engineer - Navigation (GPS/INS), Guidance, & Control -- Raytheon Missile Systems - Member Team Ada & Team Forth -- NOTE: please remove in email address to reply ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------