From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,25d5234e7b6ca361 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-03-07 08:07:35 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!news-in.mts.net!news2.mts.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E68C3CF.D4414313@agricoreunited.com> From: Grant Wagner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en]C-CCK-MCD UGG20011025 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada versus language-X and "getting real work done" (was): 64 bit addressing and OOP References: <3E4E8F8C.9C096985@adaworks.com> <9fa75d42.0302250710.5549baaf@posting.google.com> <3E5C7033.BD5DC462@adaworks.com> <9fa75d42.0302260618.7506cba7@posting.google.com> <3E5CF5C6.84822F57@adaworks.com> <1046299823.547481@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1quq5v0sb922r76rbpmcs2pe19dr4i5a2r@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:14:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.23.247.49 X-Complaints-To: admin@mts.net X-Trace: news2.mts.net 1047053658 165.23.247.49 (Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:14:18 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:14:18 CST Organization: MTS Internet Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:59625 comp.object:59115 comp.lang.ada:35038 Date: 2003-03-07T16:14:18+00:00 List-Id: brougham3@yahoo.com wrote: > Hyman Rosen wrote: > > >Programming language choice is so far from a factor in > >interoperability and communications that your comments > >are laughable. > > Why are stack buffer overflow problems such an issue in C when programs > receive communications that differ from what the programmer expected? Yes, > I'm aware this is a programmer deficiency. Subscribe to something like > Bugtraq for any length of time, and you'll see the same programmer problems > over and over and over again. If two devices are attempting to talk to one another, and one continues to send data which is not what the other expects, they would not be able to communicate anyway. So, let's consider your C program. It receives input it is not expecting, the stack buffer overflows and something happens (perhaps the software issues an error) and the device restarts. No communication has taken place. Now let's consider a Java program. It receives input it is not expecting, there is no buffer overflow, however the data is rejected as being invalid. No communication has taken place. Your choice of language has made little difference. The fact that the C programmed device had to restart is irrelevant to the argument that the device could not communicate with another device, because both devices were talking to each other using a different dialect to begin with. > Programming language choice is a factor. If you have a skilled programmer, > language doesn't matter. The problem is that it's far harder to find a > truly skilled C++ master than it is a C one. Both are many times harder to > find than a skilled Java guru. Not sure about Ada. It doesn't matter how skillful the programmer is. If a Java or Ada program receives data is is not expecting, all it can do is reject that data and not establish communication with the device which provided the data to it in the first place. Again, choice of language has nothing to do with whether devices can communicate or not. What determines whether devices can communicate is whether a common set of protocols (both high and low-level) have been established, and whether both devices understand these protocols. If I wish to FTP a file to a device over TCP/IP, the other device must understand TCP/IP and it must understand FTP. The language those protocols are implemented in are irrelevant to whether I can FTP the file to that device. -- | Grant Wagner