From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,75ceae0e15e2ed62 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-09-09 04:42:40 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!west.cox.net!cox.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3D7C8A62.C4FC17A0@earthlink.net> From: "Marc A. Criley" Organization: Quadrus Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: The Ada experience. References: <9a25nugj860iofuv46h2l2bbvlgf4ophc0@4ax.com> <4519e058.0209062259.1ab868de@posting.google.com> <3D7A054F.25E84ECF@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:41:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.190.209.142 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1031571717 63.190.209.142 (Mon, 09 Sep 2002 04:41:57 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 04:41:57 PDT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:28788 Date: 2002-09-09T11:41:57+00:00 List-Id: Marin David Condic wrote: > > Your complaints about VisualC++ are fair, but there are two perspectives to look at. MSVC++ is very feature-rich and well > integrated. Gnat as a compiler is a command-line oriented thing with some add-on tools that might make it a bit more of > an IDE. (Waiting to see what GPS provides.) In this sense, I can understand the complaint about it looking like something > from the '60s in comparison to MSVC++. > > The other perspective is that even though MSVC++ is a feature-rich, well integrated set of tools, the execution thereof > can be quite poor. Throw on top of it the naturally difficult syntax/semantics of C++ and all the traps that implies plus > the awkward and butt-ugly cripcrap that MSVC++ sticks into the code so it can connect up to the GUI building thing and > you've got a royal mess. It can make you yearn for the '60s where all you wanted to do was develop for a command line. > :-) Ditto. I've been working in the VC++ environment for a year and a half now, and I continue to bang my head up against it. (Though no small part of that is due to the idiosyncrasies of Windows(tm) as well.) I'm not stupid, and I've worked on a variety of platforms and IDEs over the last nearly 20 years (Univac, VAX, Concurrent mainframe, various Unices) and never had the ongoing struggle I experience with Windows and VC++. It's not the C++ that hits me, it's the (for lack of a better phrase) Windows paradigm. I was talking to my wife about this the other day, and she observed that when programming Windows and VC++ it doesn't matter much how smart you are, or skilled, or what you've studied; the only thing that matters is what experience you have with that environment, so that you can draw on that to work around, or avoid, problems. Marc A. Criley