From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,ac39a12d5faf5b14 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-04-14 01:48:40 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!boavista!nobody From: Michael Erdmann Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Development process in the Ada community Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:28:29 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Message-ID: <3CB93DAD.3030007@snafu.de> References: <3CB46975.90408@snafu.de> <3CB7E244.4090105@snafu.de> <2dWMkL$GpNnq@eisner.encompasserve.org> <3CB85658.5050406@snafu.de> <8YmWznELCFXQ@eisner.encompasserve.org> <3CB880AF.5080407@snafu.de> <$1qybpklMxZj@eisner.encompasserve.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: tc07-n66-113.de.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-us Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:22502 Date: 2002-04-14T10:28:29+02:00 List-Id: Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article <3CB880AF.5080407@snafu.de>, Michael Erdmann writes: > >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> > >>>Is it ISO document charges that you are complaining about ? >>> >>Yes, this is one face of the problem. >> > > Personally I am happy to pay ISO document charges, > but that is not required for the Ada Reference Manual. Who is sponsering this, US Goverment? >>>>the situation that part of the output of such a group >>>>is public and the other one not. >>>> >>>> >>>Aside from that, what output is not public ? >>> >>When is is not available on the net in a server from where >>you can download the information you need. >> > > Although that definition is not universally agreed, > how do you feel the Ada specification does not match > that definition ? Have you looked at http://www.adapower.com ? I am not talking about the currently available Ada RM which i realy like. But for example what interface is Ada providing for data base access? All MS-Languages: ADO Java : JDBC, JDO Ada ? Ada is providing nothing, therefor i am forced to reuse design concepts from ADO or JDBC in order to limit the development effort, which already brings me into licensing problem (specially ADO) because these "defacto standards" are owned by companies (at least as far as i know). These are the Situations i am afraid of, with the consequence every result of such an organization should be clearly liecensed as open source. I have to admid i am not the specialist in licensing but i hope you got my idea! > > >>Additionaly the term public does not cover only the >>availability but also the licensing. >> > > What aspect of the Ada documentation involves licensing ? > > >>>>May be a better term would be: >>>> >>>>- Open to everybody who accepts the fact that his working >>>> results will be put unter open source license. >>>> >>>> >>>So you would admit to the deliberative body anyone who >>>agreed to that, no matter how otherwise unqualified >>>they might be. That seems quite wrong to me. >>> >>> >>What means unqualified? This is the problem i have with >>the JPC. There an executive board selects experts. The >>experts will be choosen based in the priorities of the >>executive board which is founded by SUN (i think). >> > > I have not heard of such a problem with Ada. But who is paying the peoples in the ISO Working groups? I guess these are the interested companies. From my past experiences with ETSI and ITU, you get only progress if the involved parties are interested to launch something new within a given time frame. After this has been achieved, the behaviour in the working groups changes drasticaly from supporting progress towards the attitude of protecting what has been achived. The motto then is "...everything which does not hurt my product is ok, but i will put no additional effort to change it unless my market requires it...". So i am not so sure if you don't have this problem already. I have read one of your discussions about the debug pragma, which reminded me imediatly about my earlier times with ETSI. >>Anyhow something like this is already exisiting >> >>http://www.ada-auth.org >> >>Maybe this orginisation could be reshaped slightly >>to create a larger momentum on the Ada 95 community. >> >>What do you think?? >> > > I don't think there are any changes that can be made in > that area to create a larger momentum in the Ada community. > I think, they could promote ther interface towards the public (Ada 95 community) by asking proactivly the Ada 95 community for comments on the topics which are of high interest. This would at least ensure that there activities are more in line with the market requirements are. An if they would be able to add additional Annexes to the RM relating to these hot Topics this would make the difference! Maybe i will try to contact the WG9 ARG chairman (i have not found out yet who it is) regarding this issue. Because the current situation in the Ada commmunity is like in the COBOL community some years a go (realy rediculess), but at least C OBOL was realy needed because of its large code base. Regards M.Erdmann