From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 11232c,877ba3d67e73c6c3 X-Google-Attributes: gid11232c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ac39a12d5faf5b14 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-04-12 17:20:25 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!boavista!nobody From: Michael Erdmann Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,misc.misc Subject: Re: Rant! (was) Development process in the Ada community Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:23:07 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Message-ID: <3CB77A6B.5090504@snafu.de> References: <3CB46975.90408@snafu.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: tc08-n66-155.de.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-us Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:22471 misc.misc:6276 Date: 2002-04-13T02:23:07+02:00 List-Id: Kent Paul Dolan wrote: > "Michael Erdmann" wrote: > > >>i am wondering how standards are eveloving in the Ada community. >>In the Java Community there is a process called Java Community >>Process (JCP, http://www.jcp.org/) >> > >>Is there something comparable in the Ada communitiy? I guess >>if there would be something like this there would be more >>dynamic in the Ada 95 community. >> > > You have put your finger, probably, on the cause of the US Military's > collapse on the issue of an Ada Mandate in the face of programmer > intransigence to use Ada among the military community, in the answers > you have received. > > The love of doing things one rigid way, with all decisions handed down > from above, ran square into the software development community, which is > used to speedy and flexible growth in its tools. This has nothing to do with the DoD. From my experiences this is a consequence of larege orgnaisations, because it is not possible in such organisations, that everybody is communicating with everybody else to reach a common understanding. > > Probably Ada was doomed to be the Horse Cavelry of programming languages > the day its language standardization process was chosen, and I'm afraid > you are going to find no cure for what is basically an incurable > attitude problem of an entire, isolated programming community. > > Like Steven Jay Gould's "allopatric demes", Ada, brought back to cross > fertilize with other programming languages and their newly invented > mechanisms, might have provided hybrid vigor and a new, more competitive > product. > > Instead you see what you see: > > "Why should we want a superior graphics interface to replace an inferior > one, while maintaining the old one so as not to break old code?" > > "Why should the new developments become _part of the language_?" > > "Who needs a standard OS calling interface _in the language_?" > > "We don't need no stinking programming community inputs to the > language!" > > "Procedure for change? We want stability, stability, stability!" > > [The Kaiser's army had stability; programming as a task by definition > does not.] > I agree on this partially, i read this during the whole thread very often. > ad infinitum. > > ..........................complex bogosities get ditched: > _decimal_ specification of sizes for _binary_ data containers!!! > > Give me a break. > > "Progress, keeping up with community standards, is for other people!" I dont like the attitude you are showing here. I have worked on standarisation of telecomminucation protocols and i can assure you that progress is possible with a defined development process, It depends largely on the good will of the audience but it works! > > Give me a break. > > Sigh. So much promise, so small a result. Given a complete community > feedback loop and about a hundred times faster language change response > time, Ada could be everyone's programming language of choice today. > > Java, alive for about 7 years, is due imminently for its fifth major > release. That still doesn't guarantee its survival; Sun has an > incurable attitude problem toward making Java truly freeware, but it > does help. Ada doesn't even have a sponsor any more outside the > compiler vendor community, and I don't even see any visible signs of > public debate and motion toward a second much needed major overhaul and > upgrade for twenty year old Ada, just a few well hidden notes on some > standards committee web sites. > > That comp.lang.ada isn't comp.lang.ada.* is a symptom of the whole > mindset problem. Unitary Usenet discussion groups are very > characteristic of exactly one thing: _minor_ programming languages. > > xanthian. > > At least when I yelled at the Fortran standards folks back in 1987 or > so, they responded, and arguably saved their language from the dust-bin > as a result. Here, the outlook is not so rosy. > > Any how i cant seeing your point what should be done with Ada? Thrown away because the DoD has has initiated it??!!!! Regards M.Erdmann >