From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,da46977c58c329df X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-02-01 10:31:13 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.tor.metronet.ca!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3C5ADEEC.9090802@home.com> From: "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada's Slide To Oblivion ... References: <3C58AE09.7070503@worldnet.att.net> <3C598FF1.4040706@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:31:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.96.47.195 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 11:31:12 MDT Organization: MetroNet Communications Group Inc. Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:19499 Date: 2002-02-01T18:31:12+00:00 List-Id: Marin David Condic wrote: > "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" wrote in message > news:3C598FF1.4040706@home.com... > >>I think that even for those people that gave Ada an honest try, they still >>tend to slide back into what they know best. Not only does one have to >>learn the language, but they need time to discover the standard packages and the >>different ways things need to be done in Ada (due to its software >>engineering restrictions that are enforced). >>People will make a feeble attempt to start >>something, and then hit a wall. Time runs out and they abandon the new >>approach for a known one, in order to get the job done. > > But there's a way to fix that. If a bunch of Ada die-hards who are convinced > that it is a better way were to identify some niche of the embedded market > that they wanted to go for and started doing it better/faster/cheaper, > they'd start becoming very effective competition. If your competitors are > always out the door a few months ahead of you because they aren't chasing > bugs forever, you have to start wondering what they are doing that you > aren't. I agree that measurement of the competition may have its own influence. > I think the problem has been that the guys who like Ada aren't the ones who > go off and design embedded products. Probably a big part of the problem, I agree. > Its a double-E guy who dreams up "Hey! > I can build this nifty little board that will do this spiffy job - and oh, > yeah, I'll have to do some software to get it all to work...". Thinking of someone I know who used to work in hardware, and got pushed into software, what he would know and try would be C/C++. Ada would be that strange thing he heard about in the distant past. So I think part of the trouble is "Ada image" and awareness. The other problem is, as you've pointed out, he is not a software guy. But he's going to attempt it anyway, because he wants to. C is easy to work in and so even given a choice between C and Ada, he'll take the easiest route (not knowing that it will cost him time debugging etc. later). > What if we > Ada guys turned that around? "Hey, I've got this spiffy idea for a neat > software system and all I'll need is a couple of SBC's that can drive these > devices....." I keep kicking around a few of those ideas in my copius spare > time. :-) > > MDC Even when the guy has an Ada software expert nearby, given the opportunity to do it himself, I expect he will, in C (unless he understands the profit side of the exercise, and has a direct motive in this area). I'm not sure what the answer is, but you've hit one of the embedded systems area problems on the head, I think. One solution is a better image for Ada, and thus better awareness on the part of owner/managers of these types of projects. The other factor that keeps coming up is this "hiring for Ada programmers" thing. This was the very first objection when I mentioned Ada at my work. The merits of the language never even started the discussion. So I hope that with GNAT, open source and interest in Ada in the Universities, that this situation may someday change. I just hope it's not too late. -- Warren W. Gay VE3WWG http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg