From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 103376,be23df8e7e275d73 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-08-11 16:49:54 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3B75C79C.38C670F2@home.com> From: Larry Elmore X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Proving Correctness (was Java Portability) References: <9jrt62$38t$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B619A6D.5DD6E782@home.com> <3B6636BA.96FD8348@home.com> <9kb3ub$hdo$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <9kchn1$lng$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <9kea9a$lsc$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9keduf$qvc$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <9kelv1$riq$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <9klokd0nif@drn.newsguy.com> <3B706ADC.B4847AC3@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:49:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.10.25.74 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 997573793 65.10.25.74 (Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:49:53 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:49:53 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:11800 Date: 2001-08-11T23:49:53+00:00 List-Id: nicolas wrote: > > "Larry Elmore" a �crit dans le message news: > 3B706ADC.B4847AC3@home.com... > >From your statements > > relating to economics, I'd guess you either have nothing to do with the > > business side of your company, or else it's customers consist mostly of > > government agencies or other companies dealing mostly with government > > agencies. > > Sorry to disapoint you ... > We are a company small enough so that no side of the company is really far > from anybody. > Almost all our customers are private companies ready to jump to your > competitor if he is better or cheaper than you. > Or sometimes just because he feels like it, even if your product is far > better > I've learned about all that visiting customers and factories throughout the > world to understand prospects and customers needs. > I can assure you that investing unsuccessfully, in order to try to turn a > prospect in a customer, is not that uncommon. > > I'll be curious to know what's your job, and how close you are of the > business side, to think otherwise ... I'm a programmer for a small (~500 employees) hardware/software company that makes diagnostic and network monitoring equipment for major telecom companies. I don't have personal experience with the business side. I (of course) agree with everything you say here. I'm sorry for the tone of my previous post -- it was kind of rude and uncalled for, no matter how irritated I was by what I was replying to (and I normally wouldn't be that irritable, but something totally unrelated to your post already had me going). I don't think any halfway sane company would demand up-front payment in full before even starting work, though. A negotiated system of partial payments upon fulfillment of intermediate goals is reasonable in some conditions, though, even with a portion paid up-front. I know it's common in other segments of the economy. I think your TV example was flawed because developing a software library has nowhere near the risk if the company you're dealing with has a good track record, and nothing has happened to it recently that might affect its ability to carry out the job. Software libraries can also usually be used in a restricted fashion long before they're complete, which is a far different situation than a factory, which must be functionally complete before it does anything useful. Larry