From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,7bcba1db9ed24fa7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-10 14:26:18 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws06.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.202!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3B4B7319.ECD3A4D3@mediaone.net> From: Ed Falis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Death by analogy Part 2 (was Re: is ada dead?) References: <3B4B3432.5BAFE9E1@easystreet.com> <3B4B4BF9.12C1E8C@lmco.com> <3B4B613B.25659225@mediaone.net> <3B4B6F44.8C7CC353@easystreet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:26:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.96.132.248 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 994800377 65.96.132.248 (Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:26:17 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:26:17 EDT Organization: Road Runner Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9739 Date: 2001-07-10T21:26:17+00:00 List-Id: Al Christians wrote: > > It is not easy to speak from authority on this, since prices are not > on-line to reference. And I don't want to ask about price and be a > nuisance when I know as a rambling and scrambling 1-man consultancy I > can't afford this stuff, anyhow, and the vendors are so nice to make > possible freely available versions. I have paid for four Ada compilers > in my time, from four different vendors, and none of them was over > $2,000. But it has happened some times in the past when I pointed out > some problems with the freely available versions of some Ada products > here on CLA, figuring that CLA is where there are the most users and I > might get some help, that a response came back from vendor that if I > was a supported customer instead of a > taker-advantage-of-the-free-goodies-when-I'm-not-even-a-studenter > that the problems would be no problems. Al, I understand your point. Note that I currently work for that vendor, but I'm speaking for myself, from being in this business a long time. It's been rough times for all of us aficionados of the language, regardless of what our involvement has been. The vendor I used to work for started out with the premise of inexpensive Ada, widely-available (after all, it was started by the language designer), and we made a lot of mistakes along the way. Even our successes rarely paid off. But excepting R&R and to an extent Meridian, we consistently tried to get Ada to a widespread basis with reasonable cost more than anyone else. And it didn't fit the business context. The customers we dealt with at that other company wanted commodity pricing and defense-contractor level support. There was no way to deliver both, and I don't think there is now. Microsoft certainly doesn't, and neither do any of the other vendors for development products in the $100 to $600 range. For us Ada guys, there was the additional problem of general lack of broader market interest, despite sinking a lot of money into advertizing and so on. So, I don't know what the answer is to your dilemma (and you're not the only person with it). But what ACT offers in terms of support reflects the cost to provide it, and I think it also reflects the value rendered in return. You've probably used the Visual Studios, and Sun JDK's, and Borland products. They're not perfect, and often the quality is well below e.g. GNAT or ObjectAda. And just as often, the option for any kind of real support doesn't exist. Or if it does, it's part of a "larger" deal with a concomitant ongoing price tag. You can't get blood out of stone. I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit combative - it's not my intention, but I guess a fair part of my career has been tied to these issues. I'm often not so pleased looking back. - Ed