From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,7bcba1db9ed24fa7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-09 13:59:43 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!isdnet!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!news.gtei.net.MISMATCH!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!denver-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!coop.net!newsfeed1.global.lmco.com!newsfeed3.global.lmco.com!news.vf.lmco.com!not-for-mail From: "Michael P. Card" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Death by analogy Part 2 (was Re: is ada dead?) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 15:52:39 -0400 Organization: Lockheed Martin Message-ID: <3B4A0B87.B166655D@lmco.com> References: <3B460DA9.C2965042@ix.netcom.com> <9ff447f2.0107061757.34ca0723@posting.google.com> <3b47806a_4@news3.prserv.net> <3b48d27d_4@news3.prserv.net> <3B49C9A3.FB4EF7C1@west.raytheon.com> <3B49D87C.6B349412@PublicPropertySoftware.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dhcpeng1974.syr.lmco.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------771F357B19DF85492E9E73E7" X-Trace: knight.vf.lmco.com 994708359 6015 144.219.231.181 (9 Jul 2001 19:52:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.vf.lmco.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Jul 2001 19:52:39 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9690 Date: 2001-07-09T19:52:39+00:00 List-Id: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------771F357B19DF85492E9E73E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello CLA- I considered the implied cost/benefit analogy for Ada here to be incorrect, and I addressed that in "Part 1". As a separate topic, I would also say that RE: development tools for C/C++, the old adage "you get what you pay for" is still true. I have been on jobs which used the freebie "gcc" tools that come from the RTOS vendor, and I have compared the kind of multi-threaded debugging/etc support that you get with these tools to those available from third party compiler vendors. I have heard people make arguments similar to this wire-cutter analogy, e.g. "Yeah, but we get a C/C++ compiler FOR FREE with the operating system; these other tools cost thousands of dollars per seat! We can't afford that! How much difference could there be?" It is unfortunate that these kinds of decisions are made at the beginning of a project before their full impact can be known. Only later do problems like excessive memory usage, poor debugging support, erroneous or inefficient code generation, lack of exception handling etc. become apparent, and by then it's too late to switch. Money gets wasted in lost productivity every day, and in the end you end up spending far more than you would have to buy a better tool at the outset. So, I would say again that even beyond Ada vs. C/C++/Java/C#/fad du jour arguments, there is a "cheap toolset vs. expensive toolset" argument which is similar in that the "best" answer depends on what kind of job you are doing. - Mike Al Christians wrote: > Jerry Petrey wrote: > > > > This is certainly not nonsense. But don't feel bad. Many people in > > the industry are unable to understand the true cost of developing > > software and only look at the up-front coding costs, tool costs, etc. > That is one of the main reasons most software is over budget and of > > poor quality or not even ever delivered. > > > > Suppose you are an electrician and you hear about a new kind of > wirecutter. There are studies that say this wirecutter improves > average productivity by 2%. If you do the math, you can figure that > this is worth $2,000 to you over the expected 5 year life of the > wirecutters. You go to the store and see $1,295 wirecutter on sale > next to all the others at $11. Which pair do you buy? Which toolmaker > has biggest market share and good cash flow to finance ways to improve > their product? > > For $1,284 most can think up a reason why they are not average. > > Al --------------771F357B19DF85492E9E73E7 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="michael.p.card.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael P. Card Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="michael.p.card.vcf" begin:vcard n:Card;Michael tel;fax:315-456-0441 tel;work:315-456-3022 x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Lockheed Martin ;Ocean, Radar, and Sensor Systems version:2.1 email;internet:michael.p.card@lmco.com title:Principal Software Engineer adr;quoted-printable:;;Electronics Park=0D=0ABuilding 6, Room 201;Syracuse;NY;13221;USA fn:Michael Card end:vcard --------------771F357B19DF85492E9E73E7--