From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10a146,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,c9f2b97a84c48976 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 101deb,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid101deb,public X-Google-Thread: 1073c2,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid1073c2,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-07 19:55:04 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3B47CB75.234C0543@acm.org> From: "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (OS/2; U) X-Accept-Language: en-US,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.pl1,comp.lang.vrml,comp.lang.java.advocacy Subject: Re: Market pressures for more reliable software References: <9gsvr7$7ho$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9folnd$1t8$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B1FE1FE.B49AE27F@noaa.gov> <9fotpi$4k6$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3b24dc21$1@news.tce.com> <3B25D5FB.15C9B240@dresdner-bank.com> <9g5as6$hbq$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g5ipg$roq$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9g614i$at4$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g7r02$mni$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3b366a2b$6$fuzhry$mr2ice@va.news.verio.net> <9h7guv$pt1$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B3879CE.AC550F8E@acm.org> <3B3E73E8.F9C36524@ix.netcom.com> <3B405DDF.5C3F9207@acm.org> <3B416975.D7F0691D@ix.netcom.com> <3B432AD8.3828FB9@acm.org> <9i1q0r$324$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <7F917.2087$jf.539468852@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3B4648A3.BECC1FE8@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 22:54:48 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.55.10.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 994560902 206.55.10.86 (Sun, 08 Jul 2001 02:55:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 02:55:02 GMT Organization: Verio Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9625 comp.lang.java.programmer:81216 comp.lang.pl1:1213 comp.lang.vrml:4000 comp.lang.java.advocacy:22834 Date: 2001-07-07T22:54:48-04:00 List-Id: Ken Garlington wrote: > "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" wrote in message > news:3B4648A3.BECC1FE8@acm.org... > : > : Ken Garlington wrote: > : > : > If I understand the argument right, the proposed definition of > : > "decentralized programming" is "the programmer did not physically stand > at > : > the CPU while working." > : > : That might be Condic's definition; it certainly isn't mine. I'm referring > to > : such unimportant matters as analysis, design, coding, > documentation, > : configuration control, debugging and resource allocation. > > Oddly enough, this is precisely the definition I *thought* you were using. > This definition, of course, means that there has never been truly > centralized programming, anywhere - even before the advent of computers - > for any organization of more than one or two people. (See the part of my > discussion that was snipped.) Sort of takes all of the meaning out of the > words "decentralized" and "centralized," doesn't it? Personally, I prefer my > words to have meaning... ROTF,LMAO! There's never been truly decentralized analysis? There's never been truly decentralized design? There's never been truly decentralized coding? There's never been truly decentralized documentation? There's never been truly decentralized configuration control? There's never been truly decentralized resource allocation? Maybe in an anthill there isn't, but in any human organization there certainly is. If you want your words to have meaning, then you should invest some thought in them before setting finger to keyboard. > Brooks describes the S/360 OS development environment in "Silver Bullet." > IIRC, that was an IBM product. Wasn't IBM a "hardware vendor" back then? (I > think they even had a pretty good market share :) Please learn the difference between an existential quantifier and a universal quantifier. Although if George Mealy is to believe things weren't as well controlled at IBM as they ought to have been, I never made any claims about how IBM was run. > Those who worked *directly* for organizations developing business > application software might have a different perspective than those who > developed the hardware on which those machines operated. I've worked for both. Most of my experience has been on the customer side.