From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,c9f2b97a84c48976 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 101deb,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid101deb,public X-Google-Thread: 10a146,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-Thread: 1073c2,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid1073c2,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-06 16:24:53 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3B4648A3.BECC1FE8@acm.org> From: "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (OS/2; U) X-Accept-Language: en-US,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.pl1,comp.lang.vrml,comp.lang.java.advocacy Subject: Re: Market pressures for more reliable software References: <9gsvr7$7ho$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9folnd$1t8$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B1FE1FE.B49AE27F@noaa.gov> <9fotpi$4k6$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3b24dc21$1@news.tce.com> <3B25D5FB.15C9B240@dresdner-bank.com> <9g5as6$hbq$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g5ipg$roq$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9g614i$at4$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g7r02$mni$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3b366a2b$6$fuzhry$mr2ice@va.news.verio.net> <9h7guv$pt1$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B3879CE.AC550F8E@acm.org> <3B3E73E8.F9C36524@ix.netcom.com> <3B405DDF.5C3F9207@acm.org> <3B416975.D7F0691D@ix.netcom.com> <3B432AD8.3828FB9@acm.org> <9i1q0r$324$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <7F917.2087$jf.539468852@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:24:21 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.55.10.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 994461875 206.55.10.86 (Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:24:35 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:24:35 GMT Organization: Verio Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9584 comp.lang.java.programmer:81041 comp.lang.pl1:1208 comp.lang.vrml:3996 comp.lang.java.advocacy:22786 Date: 2001-07-06T19:24:21-04:00 List-Id: Ken Garlington wrote: > If I understand the argument right, the proposed definition of > "decentralized programming" is "the programmer did not physically stand at > the CPU while working." That might be Condic's definition; it certainly isn't mine. I'm referring to such unimportant matters as analysis, design, coding, documentation, configuration control, debugging and resource allocation. > However, if you consider the environment described by Brooks as "centralized > programming," there was huge bunches of that when I got into the business, > both in academia and commercial worlds. Anyone who would claim that the > existence of HASP/JES (yay Houston!) significantly affected that model > didn't work in the places where I worked (which had both, but still followed > the Brooks model). The technology may have existed for large-scale > "distributed" (in the sense of time-sharing, significant distance from the > host, etc.), but a lot of organizations in the 70s and even 80s used a > tightly controlled batch job scheduling approach to manage assets. I have no doubt that there were organizations where development was centralized. I never worked in one even though I've been programming since 1960 and worked for a hardware vendor, and only once did I work for a company that had a customer with centralized development. I've said repeatedly that different market sectors tended to have different organizations, but Condic et al seem to prefer rebutting things that I didn't say instead of addressing what I did say. > To this day, if anyone says "OPTCD=Q" to me, I vow to hunt them down and > kill them. Why? Kill the people that developed the translate tables instead. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz