From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107f24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid107f24,public X-Google-Thread: f4fd2,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gidf4fd2,public X-Google-Thread: 10259a,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid10259a,public X-Google-Thread: 103d24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid103d24,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ea8ea502d35ca2ce X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 1164ba,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid1164ba,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-05-16 18:13:53 PST Path: archiver1.sj.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!howland.erols.net!newscon04-ext.news.prodigy.com.MISMATCH!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: Gary Scott Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.basic,comp.lang.functional,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.perl Subject: Re: Beginner's Language? Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:15:50 -0500 Organization: Home Message-ID: <3B032646.34265D84@flash.net> References: <9cukad$nn68@news-dxb> <9d6b6e$1bt$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9d867n$ort13@news.kvaerner.com> <3af79d85.1462818@news.minvenw.nl> Reply-To: scottg@flash.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 64-48-137-7-ftw-01.cvx.algx.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com 990061836 6242077 64.48.137.7 (17 May 2001 01:10:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:10:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: archiver1.sj.google.com comp.lang.ada:7600 comp.lang.lisp:10195 comp.lang.smalltalk:9745 comp.lang.functional:5686 comp.lang.scheme:3861 comp.lang.perl:2793 Date: 2001-05-16T20:15:50-05:00 List-Id: Tim May wrote: > > In article , > Lex Spoon wrote: > > > > Scheme was a fourth or fifth language for me and I like it, but I > > > wouldn't deem it proper for a first course. Procedural programming IS > > > a low level business, but it helps us to see that computers do what we > > > tell them, not what we want them to do. > > > > > > Others disagree, of course. One wonderful thing about Scheme is that > > it's very easy to learn recursion with it. I don't think I really > > understood recursion until I saw the way it's formulated in Scheme: > > > > (defun myfunc (x1 x2) > > (cond > > ((base case 1) (code for base case 1)) > > ((base case 2) (code for base case 2)) > > ((... however many base cases you want...)) > > ((recursive case) (recursive code)))) > > But there are all those parentheses! It hurts my brain. > > (Oh, you mean other languages have their own mixtures of semicolons, > colons, brackets, and other symbols?) > > As a physicist who hated Fortran when he studied it in the early 70s, > after playing with Basic in the late 60s, and who then looked at Pascal > and similar languages in the late 70s, I was thrilled to learn Lisp in > the mid-80s...it made so much sense, and the Flavors system supported > objects pretty well. Specifically, Zetalisp on a Symbolics 3670. > > Some co-workers used my Vax for some Ada work, circa 1981, but I never > learned any Ada. It exposed me to objects, though. Or at least the > project it was being used for, the Intel iAPX 432, did. > > Smalltalk was essentially unavailable at the time I learned Lisp. It was > crudely available on general machines by the mid-80s. I bought Smalltalk > Agents for my Mac in the mid-90s, but QKS sort of went away. Today, I am > excited by Squeak, a full-blown (and more) Smalltalk. Runs on nearly > every platform. Open source. Good stuff. > > For beginners, I have no idea which language is best. I know that > Fortran punchcards for use on an IBM 360/75 is a horrible introduction > to computing. Fortran 95 or "F" on Wintel or Linux x86, would however be an excellent choice. Most widely available system, free versions of "F" are available for most platforms. > > --Tim May > > -- > Timothy C. May tcmay@got.net Corralitos, California > Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon > Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go > Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns -- Gary Scott mailto:scottg@flash.net mailto:webmaster@fortranlib.com http://www.fortranlib.com Support the GNU Fortran G95 Project: http://g95.sourceforge.net