From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,c8086456b887be55 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 11232c,ab67bdd1ff50fd8 X-Google-Attributes: gid11232c,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-04-27 11:22:59 PST Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,misc.misc Path: newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news-reader.ntrnet.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!xyzzy!nntp From: Jeffrey Carter Subject: Re: Ada, Software Engineering and "weirdoes" (was License to Steal) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: e246420.msc.az.boeing.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <3AE9B1F9.A9C2E8A4@boeing.com> Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: The Boeing Company X-Accept-Language: en References: <92HD6.3345$D4.334091@www.newsranger.com> <200104240531.WAA01552@well.com> <3AE5A34F.B89C8D5F@boeing.com> <9cbk4a$que$1@trog.dera.gov.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:52:57 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD Boeing Kit (WinNT; U) Xref: newsfeed.google.com comp.lang.ada:6992 misc.misc:2632 Date: 2001-04-27T17:52:57+00:00 List-Id: Kevin Rigotti wrote: > > > There certainly is [such a thing as software engineers] here in the UK, > I'm registered as a Chartered Engineer. > > Minimum requirements for CEng are essentially a Masters degree in > engineering and four years appropriate training and experience. Engineering > exams and the professional bodies here have requirements common to all > disciplines (project management, engineering maths, relevant law, etc) so I > would consider myself as much an engineer as anyone producing a more > physical product. > ... > > "Jeffrey Carter" wrote ... > > There's no easy way to determine if someone is a coder or part of that > > 2%. > Aren't there MEng degrees in software engineering in the States? I have an MS in Software Systems Engineering from George Mason University. Most of my fellow students, who have the same degree, are not part of that 2%. The final course for the degree was a large group project simulating a flexible manufacturing system. A sub-group of my group was supposed to implement the simulation of the workstations. They produced an extremely complicated set of analysis and design documents, and at the end of the semester had code that would not compile, much less work as required. The day before the last day of class I designed and implemented their software in 4 hours. I'm sure most of the people on this list could have done the same. This tendency to introduce unnecessary complexity is common among coders. The ability to eliminate unnecessary complexity is common to software engineers. All the members of that sub-group received the MS SWSE, but that does not make them software engineers. Their inability to implement a simple piece of software in 15 weeks proves that they are coders. These were people with several years experience in software development as well as CS degrees. Clearly, neither education nor experience identify software engineers.