From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,cec20777e0d41ea0 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-03-13 07:26:27 PST Path: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!jobone!dailyplanet.srl.ford.com!eccws12.dearborn.ford.com!not-for-mail From: John Kern Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Increased Interest In Ada? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:01:20 -0500 Organization: Visteon Coropration Message-ID: <3AAE3640.F3234FDA@NOSPAM.visteon.com> References: <3A82EFA2.C8756B09@acm.org> <970ma1$1l7$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <972uon$729@news.kvaerner.com> <975uv4$qbe$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <97668g$718@news.kvaerner.com> <976ht5$3bp$1@nh.pace.co.uk> Reply-To: jkern3@NOSPAM.visteon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.17.150.121 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-c32f404p (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en, en-GB, de, fr, ja, ko, zh Xref: supernews.google.com comp.lang.ada:5683 Date: 2001-03-13T10:01:20-05:00 List-Id: I think there exists a free version of CodeWarrior that addresses most of these issues for Palm programming. The downloading mechanism is build into the cradle mechanism and the docs should be available. I've even seen a PC emulator somewhere. Marin David Condic wrote: > > I have some small familiarity with GNAT/RTEMS - which is to say I basically > know what it does, but with no knowledge of how it actually does it. > Basically, this wouldn't be a bad way to go.; Let's say, for the sake of > argument, that one had a version of GNAT that ran on a PC and was targeted > to a bare board MC68040 processor. One would need to compile RTEMS to this > processor to have the runtime services needed by Ada for tasking, etc. From > there, you would compile your application using GNAT and link it with RTEMS > & then have an image that would be executable on this bare board MC68040. > (Someone correct me if I'm fundamentally wrong - details at this point don't > concern me...) > > Key to this would be that you'd need a fairly sophisticated linkage editor > that ran on the PC and targeted the 68040. You'd need to be able to locate > chunks of code/data in specific memory locations because presumably you'd > have things like EEPROM and DMA devices, etc.You'd have to get out of it > some kind of load image in a usable format (ELF or S-Records or whatever). > > From there you need some means of getting the load image into the bare board > machine. That means having a PROM burner or some kind of bootstrap code > loaded on the machine to pull data off of some port and start loading it at > addresses required. The bootstrap needs some kind of software at the other > end of the port to read the loadable image and feed it the bits & bytes in > some protocol it understands. > > Now the important thing to note here is that this is the *BARE MINIMUM* one > needs *JUST TO GET STARTED PROGRAMMING*. (sorry for shouting!) You'd still > want things like a source level debugger, some kind of on-board monitor to > wrap with your application, probably some software packages that could be > used to shield you from device specifics (although that would obviously be > one of the student exercises, you'd want them to be able to work with them > only as required by the course & just have some stuff available for the > other devices.) We could obviously go on with wanting things - like a > JTAG/EJTAG interface with software at the PC end, etc. I can easily imagine > *wanting* a lot! :-) > > While we're at it, we'd need real good documentation for the SBC and its > hardware devices because you couldn't expect students to just simply *know* > how to write code for Brand X A/D Converter and it would be a lot to ask > them to go start pestering vendors for data books. (Hell! It's a whole lot > to ask of us professionals - but at least we can justify it along the lines > of "If the company is too *stupid* to go get me the manuals I need, I'll > burn up their money surfing the net or calling the companies until I get > it.) Documentation would have to extend to the overall system as well. > Someone has to answer the question "How do I go from some source file with > the embedded "Hello World" program in it to code actually cycling in the > box?" > > From there, we'd need to either find or write some kind of college level > text that addressed embedded programming from the level of all the things > that will go on in our little SBC. I have only run into one text that > addresses this at all ("Programming Embedded Systems In C And C++" by > Michael Barr) and it only addresses some of the things you'd likely see in > an embedded computer - and as is obvious, not from the Ada perspective. (If > you know of others, I'd be glad to hear about them. I'd like to see > something that dealt with things like A/Ds and the devices that live at the > other end of them.) > > Now the problem as I see it is this: Nobody has all these pieces pulled > together all in one place using Ada (at a low price, at least), but it > *DOES* exist (mostly) for C and maybe C++. You can go to any number of > vendors who will sell you an SBC development kit that will plug into your PC > with all the appropriate software at the PC end, etc. You can be up and > programming the card with C in short order and maybe the only thing you're > really missing is the college level text. Pulling together all this stuff in > Ada is certainly feasable, but it would be a non-trivial amount of work. > > Since great minds think alike, I'll agree with you that the PR value for Ada > would be high because it would demonstrate how easy Ada is relative to C in > this arena. I'd go one step further in saying that *IF* the kit were to > exist, a *LOT* of EE profs would be tempted to structure a course around it > because it would eliminate a ton of work for them - hence even more PR > value. Throw on top of it that every EE student who's first embedded > experience is Ada would likely go on to industry with a favorable impression > of Ada and start pushing for its adoption. And of course, if the card itself > were fairly generally useful, you've got a commercial market for it as well. > > My only problem with this idea is that my full-time occupation is not the > development of such kits and as a speculative, part-time venture I just > don't think I've got the time to do it. (Not in any reasonable timeframe!) > Maybe a vendor or professor or idle-rich-kid (or several of them) might get > interested and start pulling the pieces together. > > MDC > > -- > Marin David Condic > Senior Software Engineer > Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com > Enabling the digital revolution > e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com > Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ > > "Tarjei T. Jensen" wrote in message > news:97668g$718@news.kvaerner.com... > > > > Marin David Condic wrote > > >I'm going to examine the PC/104 thing a bit more thoroughly. If you think > of > > >any other possibilities for an SBC to which GNAT might target with > minimal > > >fuss, let me know... Thanks. > > > > Check with oarcorp. They have something about a GNAT/RTEMS combo on their > front > > page. That might be worthwhile to examine. > > > > I suspect that anything quick and easy for a student/hobbyist to do is > hard to > > find information on. It seems to be the Ada way. I think the PR value of > such a > > "kit" would be incalcuable because everybody could see that Ada is easy. > It > > would be ridiculously easy to check it out for yourself. > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > > >