From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,b50bc6538a649497 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Nicolas Brunot Subject: Re: Ada student homework ? Date: 2000/11/13 Message-ID: <3A0FCBAD.824095C6@cadwin.com> X-Deja-AN: 693019919 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3A02CED4.520C2768@brighton.ac.uk> <3A078B6F.D34B024B@erols.com> <8ua3m1$bru$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A0916BB.584C6C60@cadwin.com> <3A0952B9.34BE19D1@cadwin.com> <3A0A2E53.DD650D8A@ix.netcom.com> <3A0A6B56.7437E9E7@cadwin.com> <3A0B68EF.A06B276D@ix.netcom.com> <3A0BB50B.96F77015@cadwin.com> <3A0BEAC7.5BC70E0@cadwin.com> <3A0BFA4A.5FA9D365@erols.com> <3A0C03BE.C3216454@cadwin.com> <8ujp12$3vk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Accept-Language: fr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net X-Trace: nnrp6.proxad.net 974113750 212.27.51.215 (Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:09:10 CET) Organization: Guest of ProXad - France MIME-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:09:10 CET Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 2000-11-13T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Robert Dewar wrote : > In article <3A0C03BE.C3216454@cadwin.com>, > Nicolas Brunot wrote: > > If you want companies to use Ada, don't tell them that > > Microsoft or Oracle are failures > > (Unless you prove you can make better than them, but in that > > case you would be as famous as them ...) > > No, Microsoft is not successful in terms of quality, but in > terms of quantity. This is a perfectly valid goal, and indeed > is the road to riches. Ford was much more successful than > Bugatti, but I do not think people confuse this with the > quality of the cars. Microsoft is successfull in the sense that they provide softwares that are not necessarily good, but users choose Microsoft because whatever you think it's much faster easier and cheaper to get Windows PC, connect a Printer or everything else and find available software than on any other OS. Mac may be an exception, but it crashes a lot too, and software offer is not so rich and not so cheap. On a daily utilitary basis, Ford is certainly more satisfactory for the user than Bugatti, even if you are a dream car lover, and can afford the tremendous cost ... Bugatti or Ferrari owners use those cars as toys for the rich adult people they are, and certainly not as tools, they have 3 or 4 others cars much more satisfying for daily use, and they know that. Your comparison is quite explanatory about your concept of developping software ... and shows that you are far more concerned by the fame and proudness of the developper, than by the normal user who is not interested in computers and asks for just a tool and is concerned about its cost . > If your goal is to have companies like Microsoft use Ada, Don't make a fixation on Microsoft, what it's true for them is also true for all software companies > Sometimes I wonder whether typical PC software is not a repeat > of the red delicious apple debacle (where the suppliers thought > that what consumers wanted was a nice looking apple and they > succeeded, unfortunately, people are not actually buying them > because they were also looking for a nice tasting apple. You > and I as tax payers are about to lauch one of the biggest > bailouts of its kind in history to rescue that industry). We don't pay taxes in the same country, but you are right. People want reliable software developped by smart people, but they also want them easy to find, easy to use and cheap. If you cannot (don't want) provide that on Windows, first you have to develop a new OS better cheaper and easier to use and find than Windows. After that you have to impose it on the market. And then only after, get rid of Windows. Otherwise you are going to develop wonderful software you are very proud of, but unfortunetaly, users are also looking for software working well for the PCs they own and won't buy yours softs, even if you tell them : "You stupid should know that if you are not satisfied, it's Microsoft fault, not mine .." Then all tax payers will have to pay for your convictions ... > In the PC World, people are simply accustomed to unrealiable > software that does strange things and breaks all the time. I have no strange devices on my PC (home or professional ..) and use them only as tools. I don't find it crashes su much when you don't play too much with it and do not act like someone who would every day try to change something in his car's engine. Macintosh can crash a lot too.. I have Linux and it still requires quite some computer knowledge to use as easily as windows (hope this is going on to improve) > of the most remarkable bugs of all time was the bug in Windows > 95 that caused it to realiable crash after a few days, but no > one noticed, because this crash just appeared to be normal > operation in the unlikely event that you could keep your > Windows 95 machine running that long. I saw such behavior in Gnat :-) but of course gnat blames it's not its fault ... which everybody is doing. I you are not the standard Windows is, you must be satisfying with Windows bugs, not blame them. It's your problem, not the user's one. > But Ada, and the philosophy that surrounds Ada *can* be > significant aids in achieving realiability. The first thing to achieve reliability is to consider that Ada is nothing more than a tool, often very efficient, sometime not the best one. Because you make religious opinion about Ada more important than reliability and efficiency. > I think it is ultimately a more successful path for pushing > Ada use to emphasize the role that Ada can play in improving > reliability, rather than trying to make the point that it can > work well in the current world of get-it-out-the-door, > working-more-or-less-is-all-that-matters software delivery. > (a recent thread on whether "works OK" is the most important > aspect of software performance is relevant here). Pushing Ada is not exactly a success until now .... That should make you ask yourself some questions, and ask yourself if by chance, users wouldn't be looking for Ford cars instead of Bugatti cars ... They dream about Bugatti, but even when they have one, they often ride Ford ...