From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 10261c,cfbb90c56a313e70 X-Google-Attributes: gid10261c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,cfbb90c56a313e70 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2000-09-10 15:00:32 PST Path: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-east!supernews.com!news-feed.riddles.org.uk!skynet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!surfnet.nl!news.tue.nl!not-for-mail From: Marco van de Voort Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.pascal.misc Subject: Re: From extended Pascals to Ada 95 guide Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:40:30 +0200 Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands Message-ID: <39BBB97E.FD03B359@stack.nl> References: <8o3s2a$9ph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8o4bfq$v0h$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <8obv01$7hu1@news.cis.okstate.edu> <39A991F3.A8D8BED7@easystreet.com> <8ofh6j$2anb@drn.newsguy.com> <39B59223.667C085D@brighton.ac.uk> <39B932E7.90927D13@ebox.tninet.se> <39B93D0A.27E841C4@stack.nl> <39BA7861.46333D5D@ebox.tninet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: n166.dial.tue.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: supernews.google.com comp.lang.ada:579 comp.lang.pascal.misc:285 Date: 2000-09-10T18:40:30+02:00 List-Id: > > > Understanding a bit about objects is necessary if you want > > > something like Hello World. > > > > No, you can make a perfectly good "Hello World" without objects. > Dont you need to create a subclass of some obscure Java > class to even generate a program with a null body ?? I was talking about programming in general. If you need that for Java, I consider that just another reason to NOT use Java. > > > The student shouldn't need to handle such technicalities like files > > > or units and so on. > > > > A file is an important generic concept used by most languages (including > > OOP ones). The same for units, or modules. > > > > Why do you get the idea that they are useless technicalities? > > Because in the beginning of CS1 you don�t really need persistent storage > of your work. You as a teacher would prefer not getting questions like > this: You also don't need to with e.g. Pascal. So that is no argument for Java. > Pupil: I'm working with a small a little bit of trigonometry. > Why is the system bitching about no cos ? > Teacher: you need to add something like this '-lm' That is than the problem of one language (and probably not even all compilers). Not a reason why all languages except Java are invalid. > What I'm saying is this: a language which is likened by programmer > professionals isn't implicitly a good way of expression for students > which > has started programming for the first time. Not implicitly no. But you don't have to use all features directly in the first week. I assume you don't do that for Java and its libraries either. -- Marco van de Voort (Marcov@stack.nl or marco@freepascal.org)