From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10261c,cfbb90c56a313e70 X-Google-Attributes: gid10261c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,cfbb90c56a313e70 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: "Marin D. Condic" Subject: Re: From extended Pascals to Ada 95 guide Date: 2000/08/28 Message-ID: <39AA6CF4.306FE279@acm.org>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 663472175 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8o3s2a$9ph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8o4bfq$v0h$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <39A655BE.18E89020@maths.unine.ch> <4Oxp5.428$Ze5.13712@nnrp3.sbc.net> <39A6B3FF.73538A0E@acm.org> <2IBp5.1573$OE.204952@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <39A7C4B7.E6D655C1@acm.org> <39A93469.7C1237F3@acm.org> Organization: Quadrus Corporation X-Accept-Language: en X-Sender: "Marin D. Condic" <@mail.mindspring.com> (Unverified) X-Server-Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:45:23 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.pascal.misc Date: 2000-08-28T13:45:23+00:00 List-Id: David Botton wrote: > You can get all the components from one vendor with documentation and all. > You don't have to hunt and peck for pieces. GNAT, GtkAda, GNATCOM, and GLIDE > are all available from a single source. They are all integrated and work > from the same IDE, no roll your own here. > Well, I've downloaded the various versions of GNAT for the PC and the other tools don't seem to come with it. Maybe they can be had, but its not all in one self-extracting file or even in the same directory. I've found GtkAda on the web as a separate entity and got the impression that the Windows version was not quite mature yet - maybe still usable. If all that stuff is integrated nicely, maybe it ought to be in a single install file somewhere? If you have to go to ACT to get it as a supported customer, then the situation changes. I can currently go to the local computer store and plunk down a few hundred dollars and get a shrink-wrap kit from Micro$oft that includes documentation in printed and CD-ROM format and a subscription for quarterly updates. (I do not delude myself into believing I get any real support, but mostly in this context, I don't really need it.) The last time I talked to ACT about being a supported customer (different context), the price tag was a bit higher than that - maybe more than 30x. Bzzzzzzt! Wrong answer! Can't afford that kind of price tag for this level of development and don't need that much support. > BTW, you may not have been working yet with MSVC++ long enough yet, but as > your project grows you will find that you need to dump much of what comes > packaged with MSVC++ for less bug prone components. You will need to build a > build enviorment that uses a different make then, MS's. You will need to get > a different dependancy generating tool. You will need to get a _correct_ > standard library implementation, MS's is broken and poorly optimized. You > will need configuration management that works.. etc. etc. I and other long > time MSVC developers know that long term profession development with MSVC > means throwing away have of what MS delivers and then hunting down the tools > that work. > I have no illusions about the overall quality of MSVC++. I have already run into a number of compiler bugs and related problems. Its a complex piece of software that is (probably) written in C++. (I rest my case! :-) Yes, many features have problems and the language itself makes matters worse (dependency, for example) so I know it is far from perfect. And remember, I'm a big fan of Ada so I'm not trying to make excuses for MSVC++ just because I don't want to use Ada. I'm just saying I have to give MSVC++ some credit for having put together a spiffy environment that gets you to market very fast and appears to be more advanced (or at least all in one place) than what I've seen of Ada programming environments. Being an "old timer" I have absolutely no problems with a command line compiler and in many ways, I'd prefer to work that way. I've seen some IDEs that I thought spent more time getting in your way than anything else. (I don't generally like all the "help" that IDEs try to give you in terms of project management.) But I have to conceed that there are advantages to what you get from a full-up toolset like MSVC++ . > Delphi and Ada are both much better solututions on every level including > packaging :-) > Don't know Delphi. Ada is a better language - no argument. I'd like to see a kit that uses Ada and is feature-wise/price-wise competitive with MSVC++. If its out there, I've just not bumped into it. Point me at a URL. Thanks. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Take away the punchbowl just when the party gets going" -- William McChesney Martin, Former Fed chairman, explaining what a sound central bank must always do. ======================================================================