From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10d15b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid10d15b,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,8775b19e3c68a5dc X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 111d6b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid111d6b,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 1094ba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1094ba,public From: charles@hankel.mersinet.co.uk (Charles F Hankel) Subject: Re: Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? Date: 1998/01/16 Message-ID: <34bea35b.10216900@news.mersinet.co.uk>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 316861446 References: <67et6o$dql@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <68dm0i$brv1@news.fiberlink.net> <01bd198f$4050d960$68c8b5cc@dhite.unicomp.net> <34B71B71.1EFDCAD8@ix.netcom.com> <699ndn$4fn$1@brie.direct.ca> Reply-To: charles@hankel.mersinet.co.uk Organization: I wish! Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.cobol,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.ada Date: 1998-01-16T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: On 11 Jan 1998 06:04:39 GMT, bill@cafe.net (Kaz Kylheku) wrote: > In article <34B71B71.1EFDCAD8@ix.netcom.com>, > Highlander Consulting wrote: > >Dan wrote: > > > >> > Words of caution > >> > - you will never be respected (and rightly so) > >> > - it doesn't pay much (because you'll be competing with people with no > >> > degrees and non-Computer Science degrees who are self taught, and the > >> people > >> > doing the hiring don't value the process of software engineering). > > > >I have no love of VB, but I have to respond to the idea that people who are > >self-taught aren't that great. I have a PhD......in analytical chemistry. > >However, somehow, I was able to fool that tiny little company--Boeing--into > >offering me a job in software development. Can you tell me why-when I don't > >have a CS degree-that I was offered a job?? I have to say that, although I > > I have no clue why you were offered that job, but it probably had to do with > experience other than in analytical chemistry. I can't imagine anyone getting > a Ph. D. in such a discipline without exposure to computers. At my Alma > Mater, the chemistry department are among the biggest UNIX weenies on > campus with the most powerful machines. :) Admit it; you were a hacker > in your undergraduate days and beyond. :) > > >think that taking classes about data structures, databases, and many other > >programming paradigms, I don't think that a degree in CS is that necessary to > >make a good programmer. The ability to analyze a problem, break it down into > >its component parts, and address each small problem separately to acheive a > >common goal is more important than learning a particular language. Sure, > > But these skills don't make you a good programmer. Or are you saying that > the programmers who created the software crisis of the 60's weren't able > to analyze a problem and break it down into its component parts? > > Would you automatically recommend an randomly chosen chemistry Ph. D. for > a software development position? > > >learning C or C++ is very helpful, but displaying the ability to learn *any* > >language to solve any problem is the thing that makes companies want to hire > >you. A degree is important, but only to display one's ability to learn and be > >motivated. Trust me, I landed a job with a chemistry degree. I think that > >the level of my degree--not the subject--made the difference. I have proven > >my aptitude for problem solving. Programming is only a translation step after > >that. > > Umm. I have seen lamentable code written by people with science Ph. D's. > Horribly broken, poorly designed, unmaintainable. Nevertheless, from the code > it was apparent that the programmer had a remarkable ability to solve a > problem by breaking it into smaller problems, and a great deal of potential. > Just no software experience. > > Either Boeing just took an obtuse chance on you, or you are simply not > revealing the whole picture. There is more to your background than just the > three letters P, H and D---I simply don't believe your insinuation that anyone > with a chemistry Ph. D. can land a challenging software development job, > and immediately perform in that job as well. > > Would a small company have taken a similar chance? A small company needs > someone who can produce quality software pretty much from day one; they can't > afford to hire an academic wizard and then send him or her on a six month > training course, _even if_ that person has the intellectual capacity to > master the equivalent of a four year CS curriculum in that six months. I seem to recall that the degree level was once described as follows: BS Bullsh*t MS More Sh*t PhD Piled Higher and Deeper Is there any truth in this? Charles PhD