From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10a146,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,8775b19e3c68a5dc X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 1094ba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1094ba,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fa0ae,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gidfa0ae,public From: Guillermo Schwarz Subject: Re: Which language pays most? Smalltalk, not C++ nor Java. Date: 1998/01/02 Message-ID: <34AD2228.ADFB60DB@its.cl>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 312355492 References: <199712121931.LAA25389@sirius.infonex.com> <34A7B45C.403B@min.net> <01bd14b4$dc6f6a80$6428b4cf@carla.ici.net> <68du36$l10$1@darla.visi.com> <01bd171b$444880c0$8a0af880@fido312.UIC.EDU> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DC0FD5ABE0708554F0A660BA" Organization: ITS Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.perl.misc,comp.lang.ada,comp.edu Date: 1998-01-02T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DC0FD5ABE0708554F0A660BA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shelly Mujtaba wrote: > the truth of this whole matter is none...what will eventually pay off is > your application modeling skills. If you can take a problem and model an > elegant solution for it ...any language will do. I have created > applications in Java and then recreated them in smalltalk and c++ and what > really helped was not my knowledge of the language but understanding the > model. but then if we are discussing career as a "coder" ...well... Your idea is a nice one. It sounds great at least. "It is not the languagethat matters but the design". It is hard to prove anything beyond that, bacause you can always say the desing was the problem and not the language. OTOH, there are some designs that can be implemented in Java and C++. Take for example the following design: "I need a way to express lambda expressions so that I can make a graphic with it, for example: y = x^2, and having those as variables in a program". A Smalltalker would just use the compiler to evaluate the lambda expressions, while the C++ programmer would have a 6 months job trying to achieve the same. Maybe you can say this example was not fare, because it turned out that most of the implementation is already written in Smalltalk. Ok. I agree with you, it was already coded in Smalltalk, so only an interface was needed. Let us take another more real example: "I want an object transport to transport objects in a network between applications. Objects can be moved or copied depending on the object itself, on the sender and on the receiver, and objects can be persistent or transient". A Smalltalker would think using TCP/IP (or another network protocol), serializing the objects, and making the 2 protocols (move and copy) will mean 2 days of work (if lazy) because everything is already done. Probably what will really take time will be to make the design to make extensible applications on the net, calculate how to redistribute objects in the final app. etc. But in C++ even serializing objects will mean a lot of work. Forget about study how to redistribute objects. Conclusion: Which app. would need to be coded in C++ if Smalltalk already exists? Why should someone bother with edit, compile, link, run, debug if it can be done all on the fly? Why would someone mess with a wanna be OOL if a OOL from the ground up is available? -- I use CAPS to emphasize, not to yell. I take unpopular positions. This signature is copyrighted and used without permission. --------------DC0FD5ABE0708554F0A660BA Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Guillermo Schwarz Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Guillermo Schwarz n: Schwarz;Guillermo org: ITS email;internet: gschwarz@its.cl title: Software Engineer note: Remove stop.spam to reply by mail. x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------DC0FD5ABE0708554F0A660BA--